<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Cul de Sac City: Houston&#8217;s Ban on New Street&#160;Grids</title>
	<atom:link href="http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/</link>
	<description>Houston, Texas real estate development, home buying, landscape, and design</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: kjb434</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35945</link>
		<dc:creator>kjb434</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35945</guid>
		<description>LOL John,

The train horns can be rough for those that aren't used to them.  I grew up with it and had it right next to my dorm room and college apartments (with really heavy trains traffic for the logging industry).  So they don't bother me, but the quiet zones aren't ridiculous to and railroad companies have been implementing them across the country.  I hope you guys succeed.

I think the businesses help the Wash Ave groups have a little more clout.  Cottage Grove is more hidden.

I agree with the power lines being visually un-appealing.  I think the city should focus on commercial corridors for overhead power line reduction.  Kirby is getting it with it's rebuild.  Washington Ave would be a good candidate.  Westheimer would be a large yet awesome project.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL John,</p>
<p>The train horns can be rough for those that aren&#8217;t used to them.  I grew up with it and had it right next to my dorm room and college apartments (with really heavy trains traffic for the logging industry).  So they don&#8217;t bother me, but the quiet zones aren&#8217;t ridiculous to and railroad companies have been implementing them across the country.  I hope you guys succeed.</p>
<p>I think the businesses help the Wash Ave groups have a little more clout.  Cottage Grove is more hidden.</p>
<p>I agree with the power lines being visually un-appealing.  I think the city should focus on commercial corridors for overhead power line reduction.  Kirby is getting it with it&#8217;s rebuild.  Washington Ave would be a good candidate.  Westheimer would be a large yet awesome project.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Radburn</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35944</link>
		<dc:creator>Radburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35944</guid>
		<description>Yes, perhaps on the engineering side it is true...that was George Mitchell and his gang's point, no? to master plan the infrastructure up front, limit growth and once it's to capictiy, it's to capacity. Done. Nada mas. Closed for buisines. Move on. So it was very well conceived during Phase 1 of it's conception. Things have changed since then (the evolution of the town center being one of the obvious "not a part of the original plans" concept, but things change after 30+ years. Covenants, deeds, design review committees, as well as Residential and Commercial Development standards are regulation heavy and are much more strict than what currently Harris County and the City of Houston (since it's in the ETJ) regulates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, perhaps on the engineering side it is true&#8230;that was George Mitchell and his gang&#8217;s point, no? to master plan the infrastructure up front, limit growth and once it&#8217;s to capictiy, it&#8217;s to capacity. Done. Nada mas. Closed for buisines. Move on. So it was very well conceived during Phase 1 of it&#8217;s conception. Things have changed since then (the evolution of the town center being one of the obvious &#8220;not a part of the original plans&#8221; concept, but things change after 30+ years. Covenants, deeds, design review committees, as well as Residential and Commercial Development standards are regulation heavy and are much more strict than what currently Harris County and the City of Houston (since it&#8217;s in the ETJ) regulates.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35943</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35943</guid>
		<description>jgriff: It’s funny how only one side of this debate wants to force it’s choice on the other. You don’t see anyone trying to outlaw walkable neighborhoods.

Actually, the rules for new construction effectively DO outlaw walkable neighborhoods. 

IN Virginia, the state has decided that any new cul de sac development will simply not receive government services (like snow removal and road maintenace) because cul de sacs increase the costs of providing those services. They also create traffic congestion and slow down emergency vehicles. So, if you build in there, you're on your own - there's an official disincentive based on expense and common sense. 

(And yes, this is a state thing in VA because of the peculiarities of how road maintenance is managed there.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jgriff: It’s funny how only one side of this debate wants to force it’s choice on the other. You don’t see anyone trying to outlaw walkable neighborhoods.</p>
<p>Actually, the rules for new construction effectively DO outlaw walkable neighborhoods. </p>
<p>IN Virginia, the state has decided that any new cul de sac development will simply not receive government services (like snow removal and road maintenace) because cul de sacs increase the costs of providing those services. They also create traffic congestion and slow down emergency vehicles. So, if you build in there, you&#8217;re on your own - there&#8217;s an official disincentive based on expense and common sense. </p>
<p>(And yes, this is a state thing in VA because of the peculiarities of how road maintenance is managed there.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35942</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:38:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35942</guid>
		<description>kjb434,

We looked at his projects in Cottage Grove (and on the East side, and Hilshire Lakes, and in Midtown, so obviously we liked them),but we just hated the condition of the streets. They are so narrow and crowded, and more disturbing was the overhead views of mangles utility poles and lines. It is so unattractive. (If there are regulations that I wish the city would adopt, it would be to better control the visual pollution of overhead utility lines. I'll take billboards on the highway over the mangles messes you find all over some neighborhoods, every time) Now granted, we recently bought in Rice Military which isn't much better in those regards, but we thought that long-term Rice Military has a better shot at street redevelopment. The Washington Ave area HOAs, and neighborhood groups seem to be stronger than some across the freeway in dealing with the city and the C.I.P, but who knows. It can all be just a crapshoot. We are just pushing for the Quiet Zone now. The train horn is ridiculous. I miss Cherryhurst everyday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kjb434,</p>
<p>We looked at his projects in Cottage Grove (and on the East side, and Hilshire Lakes, and in Midtown, so obviously we liked them),but we just hated the condition of the streets. They are so narrow and crowded, and more disturbing was the overhead views of mangles utility poles and lines. It is so unattractive. (If there are regulations that I wish the city would adopt, it would be to better control the visual pollution of overhead utility lines. I&#8217;ll take billboards on the highway over the mangles messes you find all over some neighborhoods, every time) Now granted, we recently bought in Rice Military which isn&#8217;t much better in those regards, but we thought that long-term Rice Military has a better shot at street redevelopment. The Washington Ave area HOAs, and neighborhood groups seem to be stronger than some across the freeway in dealing with the city and the C.I.P, but who knows. It can all be just a crapshoot. We are just pushing for the Quiet Zone now. The train horn is ridiculous. I miss Cherryhurst everyday.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kjb434</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35938</link>
		<dc:creator>kjb434</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35938</guid>
		<description>While the Woodlands has many visual cues of Masterplan Communities, from the engineering design side, they are very shrewd and often try to less where they can.  The often challenge county and city rules where it doesn't fit them.  This has happened a lot on the Harris County side more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the Woodlands has many visual cues of Masterplan Communities, from the engineering design side, they are very shrewd and often try to less where they can.  The often challenge county and city rules where it doesn&#8217;t fit them.  This has happened a lot on the Harris County side more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Radburn</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35937</link>
		<dc:creator>Radburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35937</guid>
		<description>If I suggested Woodlands was a city, I was mistaken. It's a master planned community with this many (I'm now holding up my hands stretched as wide as they can go, a little shy of six feet apart) Commercial Planning and Design Standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I suggested Woodlands was a city, I was mistaken. It&#8217;s a master planned community with this many (I&#8217;m now holding up my hands stretched as wide as they can go, a little shy of six feet apart) Commercial Planning and Design Standards.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kjb434</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35936</link>
		<dc:creator>kjb434</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35936</guid>
		<description>I hear you.

I don't think it comes directly from Mr. Frank Liu.  He's not as involved with the on the ground results of his projects.  I think it has more to do with the builders they are hiring.  I had to keep on top of them when they were building my house.  As an engineering, was pretty much anal about everything they did especially when it went in the wrong direction from the plans.  People need to understand that developer and builder are mostly often two different entities.  Your home may be an Intown or Lovett, but they didn't build it.  You may have an awesome builder or a crappy one.  I have met both on my house since they were going through contractor leads pretty fast.

As I said, I'm happy with my Intown home.  They have done a large portion of the Cottage Grove area.  They've even platted a whole new section of Cottage Grove.

He's purchased a lot of property around the south end of the light rail line.  I heard some rumors that he bought the old AstroWorld site, but I haven't confirmed that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hear you.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it comes directly from Mr. Frank Liu.  He&#8217;s not as involved with the on the ground results of his projects.  I think it has more to do with the builders they are hiring.  I had to keep on top of them when they were building my house.  As an engineering, was pretty much anal about everything they did especially when it went in the wrong direction from the plans.  People need to understand that developer and builder are mostly often two different entities.  Your home may be an Intown or Lovett, but they didn&#8217;t build it.  You may have an awesome builder or a crappy one.  I have met both on my house since they were going through contractor leads pretty fast.</p>
<p>As I said, I&#8217;m happy with my Intown home.  They have done a large portion of the Cottage Grove area.  They&#8217;ve even platted a whole new section of Cottage Grove.</p>
<p>He&#8217;s purchased a lot of property around the south end of the light rail line.  I heard some rumors that he bought the old AstroWorld site, but I haven&#8217;t confirmed that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35932</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35932</guid>
		<description>kjb434,

InTown and Lovett are better than average products. I know many people who work for Frank, and I've discussed some of these issues with him at business and social events. He is not one of the bad actors, but he is in the business to make money and is reluctant to spend money if he can't realize a return, or much more important - if the other developers don't have to do the same. He and other developers don't believe that most buyers are willing to pay "extra" for trees, so they avoid them or plant the smallest, cheapest ones they can get away with. If the playing field was always level, it would not be such a problem. This of course doesn't excuse him or anyone else from not following existing codes, no matter how lame they may be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kjb434,</p>
<p>InTown and Lovett are better than average products. I know many people who work for Frank, and I&#8217;ve discussed some of these issues with him at business and social events. He is not one of the bad actors, but he is in the business to make money and is reluctant to spend money if he can&#8217;t realize a return, or much more important - if the other developers don&#8217;t have to do the same. He and other developers don&#8217;t believe that most buyers are willing to pay &#8220;extra&#8221; for trees, so they avoid them or plant the smallest, cheapest ones they can get away with. If the playing field was always level, it would not be such a problem. This of course doesn&#8217;t excuse him or anyone else from not following existing codes, no matter how lame they may be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kjb434</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35929</link>
		<dc:creator>kjb434</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:48:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35929</guid>
		<description>John,

My home is an Intown home.

Radburn,

Woodlands is not a city and has very little regulation governing it.  It is under Houston ETJ, Montgomery County, and Harris County development rules.  Anything outside of these regs are strictly put in by the developer themselves and not a government entity.

The same philosophy governing the Woodlands is also being applied to the Bridgelands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John,</p>
<p>My home is an Intown home.</p>
<p>Radburn,</p>
<p>Woodlands is not a city and has very little regulation governing it.  It is under Houston ETJ, Montgomery County, and Harris County development rules.  Anything outside of these regs are strictly put in by the developer themselves and not a government entity.</p>
<p>The same philosophy governing the Woodlands is also being applied to the Bridgelands.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35928</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35928</guid>
		<description>The first phase of the first project Duany has designed for Lui can be seen here: http://www.intown-homes.com/communities.aspx?id=4

The best thing about the site plan is that the home sites all have alleys and rear-facing garages so that the streets are not just a landscape of garage doors and driveways like most every redeveloped street in Rice Military and Cottage Grove. It's a step in the right direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first phase of the first project Duany has designed for Lui can be seen here: <a href="http://www.intown-homes.com/communities.aspx?id=4" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.intown-homes.com/communities.aspx?id=4');" rel="nofollow">http://www.intown-homes.com/communities.aspx?id=4</a></p>
<p>The best thing about the site plan is that the home sites all have alleys and rear-facing garages so that the streets are not just a landscape of garage doors and driveways like most every redeveloped street in Rice Military and Cottage Grove. It&#8217;s a step in the right direction.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Radburn</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35926</link>
		<dc:creator>Radburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35926</guid>
		<description>I'm all for regulations that are so few you can count them on one hand. Ease of development is a good thing. I do have a healthy skepticism of what a gov't agency can accomplish with simply MORE regulations. I'm now thinking of Sugar Land, Pearland or the Woodlands. I'm not sure additional regulations and hoops=utopia. The regulations that we're talking about in this discussion is grid vs. cul-de-sac. I believe there is enough evidence on the table (and I haven't studied it other than a dozen or so years of reading journals) that suggest that the current thinking is cul-de-sacs aren't all that safe and sustainable as a growth pattern when strung out 65 miles across the landscape (excluding the donut hole in the middle called inside the loop).

I'm for the grid -- but that doesn't mean I'm in the Smart Growth or New Urbanism camp. As far as urban/suburban CVS buidings, If allowed to play regulator for a day, I would still stop short of telling developers what their building has to look like and where they have to build it. Give developers set backs and parking criteria and building codes. OK. Let's let the professionals do the job after that. Living in Houston and loving it, I've decided the benefits of fewer regs. greatly outweigh over-dictating development. The current Ordinances seem a good enough tool to ramp up and ramp back on patterns that emerge. I'm for a collective vision of all stake holders. Let's just be sure that it's not only the loudest mouths (or deepest pockets) that are heard. Kum Ba Yah CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! Deep in the heart of Texas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m all for regulations that are so few you can count them on one hand. Ease of development is a good thing. I do have a healthy skepticism of what a gov&#8217;t agency can accomplish with simply MORE regulations. I&#8217;m now thinking of Sugar Land, Pearland or the Woodlands. I&#8217;m not sure additional regulations and hoops=utopia. The regulations that we&#8217;re talking about in this discussion is grid vs. cul-de-sac. I believe there is enough evidence on the table (and I haven&#8217;t studied it other than a dozen or so years of reading journals) that suggest that the current thinking is cul-de-sacs aren&#8217;t all that safe and sustainable as a growth pattern when strung out 65 miles across the landscape (excluding the donut hole in the middle called inside the loop).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m for the grid &#8212; but that doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m in the Smart Growth or New Urbanism camp. As far as urban/suburban CVS buidings, If allowed to play regulator for a day, I would still stop short of telling developers what their building has to look like and where they have to build it. Give developers set backs and parking criteria and building codes. OK. Let&#8217;s let the professionals do the job after that. Living in Houston and loving it, I&#8217;ve decided the benefits of fewer regs. greatly outweigh over-dictating development. The current Ordinances seem a good enough tool to ramp up and ramp back on patterns that emerge. I&#8217;m for a collective vision of all stake holders. Let&#8217;s just be sure that it&#8217;s not only the loudest mouths (or deepest pockets) that are heard. Kum Ba Yah CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! Deep in the heart of Texas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kjb434</title>
		<link>http://swamplot.com/cul-de-sac-city-houstons-ban-on-new-street-grids/2009-07-14/#comment-35923</link>
		<dc:creator>kjb434</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://swamplot.com/?p=10552#comment-35923</guid>
		<description>Don't let Frank Liu working with Andres Duany fool you.

Mr. Liu is one of "those" developers that most people don't like.  My guess is that his calling on Duany was to provide proper cover so he can say, "look, I like urban walkable streets!"

I actually live in some patio homes his group built.  I have no problem with the build quality and those kinds of issues.  I share a driveway with 7 other homes.  We are gated.  Per city rule, the developer is required to plant so many trees for the size of the development.  Ours was 4.  Mr. Liu and his brother (who runs the sub company that built my home) had to be fought on getting the trees put in.  The city didn't catch, but me and my neighbors did.  We initially just tried asking Mr. Liu and his company, there response was that they don't like trees.  I couldn't believe that.  After that we just went to Code Enforcement and he was ordered to plant acceptable trees.  Now we have 4 Oaks in the front along the street and sidewalk that are doing great.

Mr. Liu's company has been the bane of active Cottage Grove residents who want the developers to actually follow the rules.  I think some of these residents ended up having some of the inspectors on speed dial.  The got more red permit tags than you can count.

To Mr. Duany's point, Houston does have lots of regulations, but we don't have the inspectors to fully implement it without active citizens.

Also, Joel Kotkin and Tory Gattis have written several articles to counter Mr. Duany.  All good reads to see some opposing view to Mr. Duany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t let Frank Liu working with Andres Duany fool you.</p>
<p>Mr. Liu is one of &#8220;those&#8221; developers that most people don&#8217;t like.  My guess is that his calling on Duany was to provide proper cover so he can say, &#8220;look, I like urban walkable streets!&#8221;</p>
<p>I actually live in some patio homes his group built.  I have no problem with the build quality and those kinds of issues.  I share a driveway with 7 other homes.  We are gated.  Per city rule, the developer is required to plant so many trees for the size of the development.  Ours was 4.  Mr. Liu and his brother (who runs the sub company that built my home) had to be fought on getting the trees put in.  The city didn&#8217;t catch, but me and my neighbors did.  We initially just tried asking Mr. Liu and his company, there response was that they don&#8217;t like trees.  I couldn&#8217;t believe that.  After that we just went to Code Enforcement and he was ordered to plant acceptable trees.  Now we have 4 Oaks in the front along the street and sidewalk that are doing great.</p>
<p>Mr. Liu&#8217;s company has been the bane of active Cottage Grove residents who want the developers to actually follow the rules.  I think some of these residents ended up having some of the inspectors on speed dial.  The got more red permit tags than you can count.</p>
<p>To Mr. Duany&#8217;s point, Houston does have lots of regulations, but we don&#8217;t have the inspectors to fully implement it without active citizens.</p>
<p>Also, Joel Kotkin and Tory Gattis have written several articles to counter Mr. Duany.  All good reads to see some opposing view to Mr. Duany.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
