COMMENT OF THE DAY: THE LOW PRICE OF HIGH PROPERTY TAXES “Houston is pretty affordable overall. However, people like to make statements about how affordable the city is and say ‘Prices are low because of __________.’ My point is, property prices are low for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is that property taxes are high.” [Andrew Burleson, commenting on Houston Home Values: The Property Tax Effect]
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I call BS on that!
There are tons of reasons that our property prices are low/affordable in Houston. High taxes is not one of them.
If you just look at property tax, then you might be able to say they are high. To the individual, there is a total tax burden, and in Texas it is very low.
I lived in Hawaii for a couple of years and the property taxes were low, but turning over 12% of my income to the State stung.
My Kids go to public schools and I’m getting my money’s worth there.
The Port, Flood Control, Hospital District, there are a lot of little property taxes that add up. I’d rather pay City than a MUD Tax.
Relative tax burden is very low in Texas only for a renter. As you migrate along from starter home to swankienda, though, the tax burden starts to become, well, burdensome. (I’m particularly sensitive at the moment, having just returned from the kangaroo court at the HCAD, which decided that my home is worth more in 2009 than it was worth in 2008.)
But is it is still nothing compared to states with income tax.
Example:
My house is a about 1500 sq ft in the loop valued at $180k. Prior to homestead exemption, my taxes are $5400/year.
My parents live in a small town in Louisiana. There house is about 3000 sq ft and is valued at about $250k. There property taxes is $900/year. But you have to throw in the state income tax. My parents together pay about $10k in income taxes.
To them, I’m making out like a bandit. And there are plenty of states that are worse than Louisiana with taxes.
I think people think the property taxes are outrageous because they actually see the total number versus and income tax comes out piecemeal.
“I call BS on that!
There are tons of reasons that our property prices are low/affordable in Houston. High taxes is not one of them.
If you just look at property tax, then you might be able to say they are high. To the individual, there is a total tax burden, and in Texas it is very low.”
But the tax on the house is high. I always hate it when people refer back to “econ 101” but in this case it is appropriate. When you have a supply/demand curve for a good (like houses) there is an equilibrium price (call it Pe). When you impose a tax on that good, the price for the buyer increases (call it Pb), the price received by the seller decreases (call it Ps), and quantity sold of the good decreases from what it would be absent the tax. The difference between Pb and Ps is the tax on the good.
So even if our total tax burden is lower than in other places, a tax on any specific good (property, gasoline, cigarettes, strip clubs, etc. etc.) will increase the cost of that good in particular, while reducing the quantity sold. The steepness of the demand and supply curves (aka the elasticity of supply and demand)will affect whether the seller or the buyer is more affected by the tax in terms of how different Pb and Ps are from Pe (regardless of who is actually paying the tax).
RWB,
I agree with what your saying, but there is another aspect to all this. What are we getting for the price of the good. A $200k here in Houston can potentially get you plenty more home than you would even need than in many other cities.
If you wanted a $200k in Los Angeles in a nice neighborhood, then in Houston you need about $10 for a good quality cardboard box in Midtown for equivalent.
The equivalent price for the same good in Houston is much lower than in the compared cities. At the taxes on to that and you still end up cheaper. That’s why in Houston, the property taxes don’t affect the market that much. The end bargain is still so damn good it doesn’t matter.
In case I didn’t make that clear, the property tax in effect increases to the total price to the buyer so that it equals the seller’s price plus the tax. Pb = Ps + T. Ps is lower than Pe because the tax reduces demand for the good by making it more expensive.
Yes,
But you are missing my point. The price of the house is lower in Houston. Enough so the high tax still doesn’t equate to the price before tax in other markets.
In the end, it’s still cheaper overall and has little affect on the supply of housing.
That may be true (obviously LA is famous for its high house prices). But the comment said “My point is, property prices are low for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is that property taxes are high.”
Whatever other reasons house prices are low in Houston, one reason is our relatively high property taxes. It’s basic microeconomics. Even the ghosts of Milton Friedman and Friedrich von Hayek would agree.
Another reason home prices are lower in Houston is that we have an efficient and functioning market place, unlike any major market in California, especially LA.
When there is demand we can quickly plat and develop a new subdivision. Float MUD bonds to install roads and utilities and crank out 40,000 homes in a year. In SoCal the planning and development that we do in 18 months takes them over 6 years.
Also Prop 13 has frozen a huge chunk their market and made prisoners of many homeowners. Because their taxes were capped at an old value, many longtime homeowners can’t afford to move to a smaller or less expensive home because any move will result in an astronomical increase in their property taxes.
So in CA supply is curtailed, local governaments are starved for cash and excess, unmet demand resulted in a ridiculous bubble of speculation fed by irresponsible lending.
Also Prop 13 has frozen a huge chunk their market and made prisoners of many homeowners. Because their taxes were capped at an old value, many longtime homeowners can’t afford to move to a smaller or less expensive home because any move will result in an astronomical increase in their property taxes.
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Appraised value in California is “acquisition value” which means “value on the date it was bought or the date construction was completed and the house was occupied” and while “family home” has taken on new meaning there are those throughout the state who as you point out are stuck with their homes unless they’re willing to pay ten times more in property taxes or unless they’re willing to rent.
All the other considerations aside, it is still a better way. It is not perfect. But most people would probably prefer spending their later years in a home where they didn’t have to worry up losing their home because they couldn’t afford the home because of the taxes.
And “acquisition value” doesn’t always mean “market value” and many homes in Los Angeles have appraisals far lower than the market value simply because they may have bought the home in 1990 and the increase in valuation is capped at 2% per year. It doesn’t matter that the home next door sold then years later for $25 million. But you know what? If that home that sold for $25 million sold again for $15 or even 20 million, everyone in the area would see their appraised value go down accordingly.
Los Angeles County had the wisdom to know what overvaluation can do. So they have always been “realistic” in their formulas. Better to lose a little than a lot if there is devaluation. Having wisdom is something that cannot be said of Harris County. Of course taxes here will just go up accordingly. But not there. They are capped at 1% of the valuation. No exceptions, no special bond issues or debt retirements, just a flat 1%. And no that is not 1% per county, city, and school district. That is just a flat 1%.
They are going to have budget problems. But so are we. Ours will be much worse at some point.
The real problem is taxation. The fuse that lit the bomb that started the American Revolution was the matter of taxation without representation. What we ended up with is taxation without rationale. For most of the past 40 years we have had representatives on both local, state, and national levels who view the taxpayers as an ATM. The ATM is running out of money.
HCAD is making home ownership impossible for many. The assumption is everyone will just work harder and make more money to pay the taxes. This is not Los Angeles. We have far fewer homes priced over $1 million because we have far fewer homeowners who can afford a home priced over $1 million let alone who can afford the taxes on a home priced over $1 million that will go up each year by 10%.
But we will see valuations go up and taxes go up. Until lawsuits are filed. And good luck to the judge who decides that a home that sold for $500,000 is worth $750,000.
Housing is reasonably priced in Houston for two main reasons the price of land is low. We have no mountains or bodies of water to stop us from sprawling all over Hell’s half acre. Second is cheap labor in the form of undocumented workers.
According to Texans for Fiscal Responsibility, “Residents of Houston endure the highest effective property tax rate of any major city in the nation at $2.99 per $100 valuation. While other cities had a much higher statutory rate, they had significant exemptions. As a result, Houston’s effective property tax rate is nearly three times that of New York City and more than five times that of Denver.
In addition, Fort Bend, Williamson, and Tarrant counties made the Tax Foundation’s dubious list of the 20 counties with the highest median property taxes paid as a percentage of the median home value. The other 20 counties were in New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Illinois. ”
Because of the aded Metro tax, Houston’s sales tax also ranks at the top of the nation.
Finness,
I still pay less taxes here in Houston than in many other metros.
Although the tax burden on the home is high, the overall tax burden is low here in Texas. On top of that, if you own a home and want a major tax cut, just start renting again.
I much prefer our setup than a state that has an unfair graduated income tax.
Also, I don’t understand the hate on HCAD. There are one of the easiest agencies to work with. They make it quite easy for an individual to perform the protest. You can even do it online.
Reading all this banter about property taxes has been very interesting.
The property tax sham/scam is the primary reason I will not own real estate property in Houston – You will never really “own” the property outright.
Housing is reasonably priced in Houston for two main reasons the price of land is low. We have no mountains or bodies of water to stop us from sprawling all over Hell’s half acre. Second is cheap labor in the form of undocumented workers.
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Houston does not even begin to compare to Los Angeles in terms of “sprawl” and reality is their housing market is quite different than ours as a result. Our “boonies” are a 30 – 60 minute drive. Theirs is a 60 -90 minute drive.
Their “River Oaks/Tanglewood/Memorial” is also much larger. They also have more people who can afford a $1 million home.
Just not as many people who could afford a $25 million home as many found out the past several years. $10 million was the “average” and now it is closer to $5 million for the home and a little land with an exclusive view.
It’s all apples and oranges. Most people are going to live in a city for a variety of reasons. Most who move to a city just because it is cheaper usually end up wishing they hadn’t. And Houston isn’t necessarily cheaper. It depends on how you look at it.
Matt- Yes, that is my point. LA sprawls AND costs more because they have to zig zag around mountains and they cannot expand to the west – there is an ocean in the way. We can and DO go in every flat direction. Also ture that fae fewer people have wanted to live in Houston.
Similarities abound! Just take away their great weather, mountains, ocean, glamour industries, celebrities and the world-wide reputation as a desirable place to be and we are a lot alike.
I would much rather live in hot and humid Houston any day.
Give me my piney woods, coastal prairie, and marshes.
I’ll gladly live with a good hurricane thrashing versus, wildfire and water shortages.
I love Houston the way it is. Why do people always want to ruin it from the beauty it has now.
Add all the property taxes and sales taxes together and you get about a 12% tax.
miss_msry,
The sales taxes are a choice. Plus, California and Los Angeles is higher than the sales tax here.
I don’t know more specifics about California, but I know some general grocery items in Texas are taxed with a sales tax.
From miss_msry:
Add all the property taxes and sales taxes together and you get about a 12% tax.
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12% of what?
I meant taxed withOUT sales tax. OOPS.
Kangaroo court is probably the best description I have heard for HCAD The protest process is completely money driven. We have a system where basically we give them a blank check and they let us know how much they need. If you try to protest it is useless and you are going at it alone. The independent citizen advocates are actually political appointees making $175+ a day and the “appraiser” who works for the district has a special accreditation for tax districts. He cant walk outside that door and be called an appraiser or go any where else and make money as an appraiser.