WOODLAND HEIGHTS NOW DOGGED BY GANG VIOLENCE A marauding pack of four-legged criminals has attacked and killed more than 6 pets in the Woodland Heights area: “[Recovery specialist Doug] Worthy said pets should be kept inside at night, if possible, and if people are out after dark, they should carry something like a bat to protect themselves. The pack of dogs are described as four to six brown and black mutts, weighing between 80 and 90 pounds.” [Click2Houston, via Heightsfolk]
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Bat? It’s called using a gun and shooting the offending dogs.
It’s sad that the reaction is just hide in your house and god forbid if you do anything pro-active to fix the situation.
It’s sad that the reaction is just hide in your house and god forbid if you do anything pro-active to fix the situation.
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I dont think that the point of this post is to suggest that people lock themselves in and hide. It seems to me that this is merely an informative message. Keeping animals in would not only ensure their safety, but perhaps also keep them from packing in the evening. I do a lot of reading here and not as much writing. You might consider a similar tactic as I am not sure that putting bullets in the dog’s heads would be considered a ‘proactive solution’. Ultimately it is irresponsible people who are at fault here.
I second what kjb434 said.
But there bound to be residents who have seen some of these dogs. If these dogs are tagged and have owners, then there is definitely legal (criminal) action to take place.
If these are strays with no official tags, then it’s open season to protect the neighborhood.
They are strays to the best of everyone’s knowledge and what the neighborhood have done is hire a professional animal catcher to trap the animals (Doug Worthy). Seems pretty proactive to me and almost certainly safer and more responsible than proposing that residents start shooting at anything that moves in the dark.
Clearly the local news has been pulling a good deal of thier stories from thehaif.com. They have been discussing this for at least a month over there.
Best thing to do here is harvest these animals.
A .22 would sufficiently handle the job.
I’m in the neighborhood and the one thing they didn’t mention was that these dogs did attempt an attack on a person, but he fended them off by yelling at them and making lots of noise. I think thats where the baseball bat comment originated from. As for everything else, its common sense: don’t let Fido or Fuzz roam around at night until this is resolved. And DEFINITELY microchip your pets!
Mmmmm. . .harvested dog. Markd, you’re cooking!
“As for everything else, its common sense: don’t let Fido or Fuzz roam around at night until this is resolved. ”
How about don’t let them roam ever, because it’s illegal, and a nuisance to your neighbors, and dangerous for the animals?
I feel sorry for the cats who got killed by the dogs. I don’t feel sorry for owners who let their cats roam. It’s basically asking for them to die, while letting them crap in your neighbor’s yard. Very responsible behavior.
http://www.filmnight.org/images/tokill3.JPG
I wish those dogs would make a stop by the Allgreg Esplanade and run off the dogs/owners at the new “Dog Park”.
The worst thing is that when the neighborhood asked BARC to help handle the situation, BARC told us that until a person got bit they weren’t interessted.
BARC?
Why should the neighborhood even enlist this fairly incompetent group? This is a relatively simple problem that a few neighbors can solve without involving a city agency.
kjb434:
Bat? It’s called using a gun and shooting the offending dogs.
It’s sad that the reaction is just hide in your house and god forbid if you do anything pro-active to fix the situation.
This is the solution we used where I grew up.
Sadly people in big cities like Houston can’t be trusted to understand and use firearms responsibly.
I hate to hear stories like this, and I also hate to read callous responses like several of those above. How about a little less bloodlust, guys? Before you jump all over me – I DO realize something has to be done about the strays, but this “shoot first ask questions later” mentality is disturbing.
It’s not bloodlust. It solving a problem.
Solutions are always clean, but they work.
How is shooting the strays different from what the SPCA or other shelters deal with strays?
An before goes on a diatribe about shooting isn’t a humane way of dealing with the problem, I ask “How humane will your pet die or get injured from the strays?”
this “shoot first ask questions later†mentality is disturbing.
You can ask the dogs whatever you want but I don’t think they’d say anything self incriminating.
I’ll tell you what’s SAD. What’s SAD is when the first reaction to handling a pack of stray dogs is to ‘git the gun.’ I am a native Houstonian and spewing crap like that is what gives Texans the ‘hillbilly’ rap we get. Unless one is a certified master marksman, it is completely unsafe and irresponsible to even suggest shooting those dogs. We’ve owned a 357 for years and shooting stray dogs is not what we bought it for. And before you call me a sissy, how humane will your neighbor or your neighbor’s child die when a moron pulls the trigger?
IF an individual could kill SAFELY, without pain (for the animal) or horror (for bystanders, especially kids) then I feel bullets are warranted, and, the shooter should be exonerated… as soon as s/he disposes of the dead animal, of course :-)
A few years back in Caracas, the police would toss poisoned meat about a neighborhood in the morning and come back to pick up dog carcasses in the late afternoon. It was nightmarish, disgusting, though efficient and cost-effective, I suppose.
Hope it doesn’t come to that in Houston.
See, it might be better to take care of the problem *ourselves.*
I have always adopted strays & rescues and believe in the value of these mixed-up pedigrees. HOWEVER, there are just too many unwanted animals! and strays do need to be culled. Cats too. Check out: DontShootTheCat.com, for animal lovers overrun with cats they can’t sell or give away…
I run my shepherd late at night, the only problem I run into is the occasional toad in the road, the squirrels and cats run for the trees, life in the burbs…..
You guys are my problem, can I shoot you?
Props to marketingwiz and movocelot, who said what I was trying to say only better. Jgriff – touche.
As for you KJB – I know you just like to ARGUE so I’m not going to respond to your comment. I said my peace. One suggestion though – proofread.
and that was not a threat…just a rhetorical question.
Shooting doesn’t mean getting out a 22-gauge or a 9mm and blow doggy bits to kingdom come. A simple pellet rifle does the trick to kill most small pests (squirrels and mockingbirds). For dogs and cats, it works well as a sting to remind them to stay away and they’ll heal after that. That’s how my father took care of these pest growing up. We weren’t necessarily into killing them until they became a serious nuisance, because then we’ll have to deal with disposing of the animals.
BARC is improving each and everyday. And many of us that are concerned about the overpopulation of animals are working to get better spay neuter programs in place.
One way to end the overpopulation of pets? Adopt, don’t shop. Pets are not products.
I’d shut up while I was ahead, KJB. Your moron-isms are just making you sound even more stupid, if that’s possible.
I have a dog that I consider family and would of course be very upset if he was shot. However, if he was menacing a neighborhood and could possibly kill a child I’d have no problem with someone shooting him. My father did this after leaving church one day a few years back. There was a vicious dog in the parking lot and people couldn’t get to their cars to leave. The dog had already bitten a little girl so my father went to his car, got a gun and killed the dog. Of course the police came and questioned him but they understood and let him go.
There are situations where a dog should be shot. However, like I said in my previous post, people in big cities usually have no idea how to responsibly use a gun. I sure don’t want most of the residents of the Heights to ever get their hands on one.
I lived in Spring Branch four years ago and had to contend with a pack of wild dogs that came on my property and dragged my cat into an adjacent property and mauled her. So much for the snotty attitude towards the irresponsible pet owners who let their pets roam and the equally abominable attitude that it’s their fault their pets got mauled. More of the “guilty victim” crap from very evil people. Mine didn’t roam. And she died the next day. The homeowners association had tried for two years to get BARC to do something. I did something. By screaming bloody murder and then warning the principal of an elementary school that if she didn’t so something and the pack attacked a child, I would make sure the parents knew that HISD was aware of it and did nothing and hoped if that happened the parents sued HISD. That of course did the trick. After two years. I had called prior to the attack. I called the mayor’s office, I called councilmembers’ offices, I called HPD. It wasn’t until I started screaming after my cat was dead and I screamed at a principal of an elementary school that they finally rounded up all of the pack. And I will never vote for those I called ever. I hope at some point they stand and watch helplessly as a pack of wild dogs mauls their 13 year old defenseless pet. And then I hope they rot in hell. I will remember watching those dogs maul my 13 year old defenseless cat for the rest of my life.
As for shooting the dogs, I was told by both BARC and HPD that I could not do so. And I could be charged with a criminal act if I did so. Even though they were wild dogs. So be careful about deciding to take care of the problem yourself. You could end up in jail.
If these dogs do belong to someone, the dogs should be put down and the owners should be put in jail. Maybe that will put a stop to this problem which has existed for years in most areas of the city.
BARC is improving each and everyday. And many of us that are concerned about the overpopulation of animals are working to get better spay neuter programs in place.
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Do you really think the owners of these packs of dogs, and there are quite a few around the city, care about spaying or neutering them? Most of them use them as guard dogs for their property. And when they aren’t fed enough, they roam the neighborhoods looking for an animal to eat and usually that is someone’s cat or dog and when dinner is finished, they go home and guard their owner’s property.
No dog in this city should be allowed to run loose. Cats don’t attack dogs or little children. Dogs attack cats and little children. And when they are loose and picked up by BARC they should be spayed or neutered if they haven’t been before the owner is allowed to pick them up. Although honestly in most cases the owner won’t. They usually hgave 5 more. Most of them constantly breeding. I cannot imagine anyone saying BARC is improving. It is not. And offering little kittens and dogs for adoption is not addressing a thing. Which is about all BARC of late seems to be doing.
The worst thing is that when the neighborhood asked BARC to help handle the situation, BARC told us that until a person got bit they weren’t interessted.
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That actually is the law in this state. A wild dog can attack anything it wants and yet is curiously protected. The only circumstance you are allowed to shoot is if the dog or dogs are on your property and one of them or all of them attack a person. And you better have the bite wounds to prove it.
BARC however does have a responsibility under city ordinance to pick up stray dogs and even if they have tags they are still stray if they are runninig loose. And yet BARC tells you unless they’ve bitten someone there is nothing they can do. Or will do.
I cannot imagine anyone stating with regard to this that BARC is improving. They are not. Not when they allow wild dogs, owned or not, to terrorize our neighborhoods.
Matt, those owners to whom you refer would be part of that plan. Penalties for unaltered pets not registered, higher registration fees for unaltered pets, 60 day penalty forgiveness if pet altered in that time, low cost spay neuter, responsible pet ownership education. Just a few of the ideas being kicked around. There will be no perfect solution, there will be holes in the plan that some can get through but we can see significant improvement if the community chooses to make it a priority. And even if they don’t we can still see small building improvement.
Offering pets for adoption is only a small part of the improvements happening at BARC. Come on our this Saturday and see. We volunteers could use all the help we can get!
And by the way, everytime someone in my neighborhood (Sunset Heights) has called to report loose dogs, animal control has been dispatched.
And you can trap them on your own, call BARC and they will come and pick them up.
Matt – I am so sorry about your cat. That is so rotten. I am in spring branch too. Our neighbors pack of four pit bulls broke through our fence and stayed until we finally got BARC to pick them up two days later. We were told the same thing when we asked about our rights to defend ourselves if it happened again. They told me that if we killed those dogs on our property we would get charged. I am not sure if I believe it, but I would think twice before I did that. BARC did allow that it would be ‘better’ if someone got bit by the dogs before they were shot!! My question “Better for who?!?” went unanswered.
I love that Texans get that ‘hillbilly’ rap. I’ll do anything I can to perpetuate it. This city has too many people in it already. So few people are native Houstonians, but they come here and want to make it like where they came from. That’s why Woodland Heights is suffering from this problem to begin with. The crazier the rest of the world thinks Texans are, the better life will be for those of us who want to keep Texas Texas.
That being said, everyone knows it’s a bad idea to go shooting a .357 at dogs. Anyone care to overreact some more? The problem is that the residents publicized it instead of just handling the problem on their own. One or two proactive, tight-lipped homeowners could have nipped this in the bud and nobody would have been the wiser.
So, Sarahc, what did the pit bulls’ owners say when you (surely) told them to get their dogs out of your yard and repair the fence they broke through? There’s a piece missing from this story.
And Matt, my sincere condolences regarding your beloved cat. I have three.
Well you’re doing a damn fine job of perpetuating our hillbilly image, Angie. Maybe we can change the city’s name to Vidor II. Or maybe you could move there. Sounds like it might be more to your liking. Birds of a feather, eh?
Penalties for unaltered pets not registered, higher registration fees for unaltered pets, 60 day penalty forgiveness if pet altered in that time, low cost spay neuter, responsible pet ownership education. Just a few of the ideas being kicked around.
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What alternate universe do you live in? People who have packs of dogs do not register them. Most don’t even have them vaccinated. You pick the dogs up, they don’t care. There are lots of other strays strays to adopt. And abuse. Most of these packs are also abused by the definition of abuse. They are not well-fed nor are they well-provided for. The owners should not be fined. They should be thrown in jail for keeping fertile animals which have not been property vaccinated. End of subject. Start throwing them in jail and most might stop. Or move to the country. Where they belong. They do not belong in the city. They or their wild animals. And while I do so hate being “politically incorrect” the reality is the problem has increased through the years as our population of illegal immigrants increased particularly in the Spring Branch and Heights areas as well as Bellaire and Sharpstown. They don’t care about our immigration laws, so why would they care about our animal control laws? Not that there really are any to speak of. We need strong ordinances to make up for the weak state laws. BARC should be charged only with picking up strays. Give the rest of the budget to either SPCA or Human Society. At least they humanely euthanize. They don’t hire psychopaths who love watching animals suffer the way BARC has through the years.
As for “Friends of BARC” they seem to be enemies of everyone else who have tired of these packs of wild dogs continuing to run loose and terrorize neighborhoods in our city and while you may not have a problem in Sunset Heights they have a major problem in Woodland Heights just to the south of Sunset Heights. The way they have problems in other areas of the city. Maybe you have enough “Friends of BARC” living in Sunset Heights that they want to keep you all happy so you keep spreading the good news about BARC. Which at this point is falling on quite a few deaf ears. Especially those of us who have had to deal with the problem. Don’t tell me BARC picks up strays. People in Spring Branch will tell you different. And in Sharpstown. And in Bellaire. And now in Woodland Heights.
BARC did allow that it would be ‘better’ if someone got bit by the dogs before they were shot!!
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That right there tells you the problem with BARC. “We’re sorry the pack of dogs mauled and killed your cat. But until they maul a a person there is nothing we can do.” Call them, in other words, when the pack of dogs maul and kill a child.
And that of course is why I called the principal of the elementary school.
And city council has had four years to do something about it. And they’ve done nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Seriously? The Animal control people won’t pick up a stray dog until you can prove it bit a human? This is appalling.
Worse, however, is the uncomfortable knowledge that I live among people who would fire a weapon at a stray dog in an urban or suburban environment and call it responsible gun ownership.
I know how angry Matt must have felt — I am a devoted lover of animals, and would be furious if it had happen to one of my cats. It makes me angrier to think that people who are PAID to deal with this problem are unwilling to step up and do their jobs.
My father in law shot the neighbor’s pit bill when it came through the fence and started mauling his dog. HPD’s only response was to tell the neighbor they should have kept their dog in their own yard.
Section 822.013 of the Texas Health and Safety code allows anyone to kill a dog that is attacking livestock, humans, or domestic animals. That leads me to believe that the only crime the City can charge you with if you shoot a dog is discharging a firearm, which is pretty minor compared to being injured by a stray.
The better solution is for the City to do its job and catch the strays, but we are all ultimately responsible for our own safety.
The one time I’ve called animal control (when a dog was wandering a park near my house and behaving aggressively) they told me they would come out in a couple of days to check on it.
You know, it’s not the idea of shooting these dogs that people are reacting to – sometimes, that is what most happen – it’s almost loving, excited way that people jump immediately to it, complete with pictures to make their point. You get the impression some folks are just sitting around waiting for a good reason to shoot something.
As for being uncaring toward people who let their pets wander… I’m not talking about in your yard. (And by the way, as a kid I had the experience of a stray dog coming into the yard and killing the family cat before my eyes, which is one reason I have always, always kept my cats inside.) The Heights is full of cats who are just wandering out alone, running across streets, through neighbors yards, etc. The owners of these cats are being somewhat irresponsible. It’s dangerous for the cats. It is against the law.
And it is a nuisance to neighbors. At my old house, there were several neighborhood cats who had picked my yard as their favorite litterbox, and i was constantly cleaning up their crap. It’s annoying, and it’s a health issue too – especially if you have a dog who might get into it when he’s in the yard. For some reason people who don’t pick up after their dogs are recognized as being irresponsible and bad neighbors, but with cats, it’s considered OK.
Keep your cats indoors. They’ll live longer, healthier lives without getting attacked my other animals, contracting feline leukemia of FIV, or annoying your neighbors.
If you don’t keep your cats indoors, and something happens to them, I’m sorry, but you were asking for it. It’s sad but mostly it’s sad because the cat didn’t have someone who bothered to take care of it properly and therefore died early.
Let’s form an angry mob. I’ll get the pitchforks and torches.
If you don’t keep your cats indoors, and something happens to them, I’m sorry, but you were asking for it. It’s sad but mostly it’s sad because the cat didn’t have someone who bothered to take care of it properly and therefore died early.
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I guess I abused my cat for 13 years before a pack of wild dogs mauled it and killed it? I guess the pack of wild dogs did it a favor? I guess my 19 year old cat obviously needs to be rescued. She likes to go sit outside occasionally. Obviously I am abusing her by allowing her to do so.
As anyone who has cats and does love them and does take care of them will tell you, some cats love it indoors. Others, well, you let them out before the neighbors call the police about the howling cat. Or before they tear up the house. Most of my cats through the years that were outdoor cats tended to still come in to use the litter box by the way. Sorry that some cats don’t. Maybe some that don’t are strays. Maybe some are ferals fed by fools. Maybe this, maybe that.
As for this crap about crap the bottom line is cats are cats. Dogs are dogs. Some of them like to be outdoors. Most of us put up with dog owners who don’t clean up after them. Some of us have to put it up with cats that crap in gardens. I’d rather deal with crap in the garden than crap on my shoes.
As for the cats being abused and deserving somehow to be mauled and killed and therefore being “guilty victims” along with their owners, shove it.
Section 822.013 of the Texas Health and Safety code allows anyone to kill a dog that is attacking livestock, humans, or domestic animals. That leads me to believe that the only crime the City can charge you with if you shoot a dog is discharging a firearm, which is pretty minor compared to being injured by a stray.
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The Castle Law lets you shoot someone who comes on your property. But you know what? You better have a good reason for shooting them. And you better have a dead pet or a dead person lying next to the dog you just shot – particularly if it wasn’t part of the pack of wild dogs but merely another dog that wandered into your yard and in fact belonged to the county sheriff who lives next door. Fools take the law into their own hands and usually end up shooting themselves.
Keyword in the statute is “livestock” and this law like so many others means one thing when you live in the country. Quite another thing when you live in the city.
Some how I wonder if this was about kids getting hurt by the stray dogs that some posters will be less passionate.
I agree that BARC should respond to loose dogs, particularly aggressive packs. We spend less than 1/4 on our animal control than San Antonio, Austin or Dallas. If you want to have the manpower available to be able to respond to loose dogs, I suggest you lobby your city council to increase the budget. You are getting what you are demanding, and I suspect enough people are not demanding an increase in that budget. ANother thing to try (maybe you have) is to call the police for loose dogs. I don’t know enough about the process, but if the police call animal control, I think they do come out. Could be wrong.
Matt, I am so sorry for the loss of your cat. I can only imagine the agony that image has been for you. And no, your cat should have been safe in his own yard, so to blame your cat for his own mauling is just wrong.
“From marketingwiz:
I’d shut up while I was ahead, KJB. Your moron-isms are just making you sound even more stupid, if that’s possible.”
One thing he is not doing is slandering others. There are a number of individuals around here that could stand a lesson in decorum.
I still don’t understand why BARC has to be one to respond to this?
No, don’t increase their budget. They’ve already proven they can’t run the operation. More money just means it’ll get worse. This is a simple problem that doesn’t need a wasteful solution by calling someone else to solve it.
So kjb and Matt, if I am hearing you guys correctly, I hear that you both suggest doing nothing but griping. Any action suggested has been quickly struck down without an alternative suggestion, other than shooting.
If you consider the size difference in Houston from San Antonio and Dallas, and then consider that Houston’s BARC has been running on 1/4 the budget of those two much smaller metropolitan areas, you might just understand why BARC has been so inept at animal control. I am done arguing with you two though, because you both seem dead set in keeping things the way they are.
EMME,
Have you been following the recent corruption scandal that has befallen BARC?
I’m not just making this up. It’s been going on for a while. I don’t know how increasing the budget will help them. You might as well just light the money on fire. I rather BARC be eliminated an the service be outsourced for cheaper. The n the money can go something like hire more police officers and firemen.
If you don’t want to shoot the offending dogs, trapping them with meat isn’t hard. BARC could be called after the fact when the animal is trapped and it can take care of it.
The last thing I want to do is put my security and safety in the hands of the city. That is just asking for trouble.
kjb…if you have watched any of the recent city council discussions on BARC, you would have seen me speaking. I am front and center in trying to help make BARC what it should be. It has been a horrendous hell hole for all who enter (for humans and animals alike) and has been grossly underfunded, and very poorly (often criminally) managed. I went to a meeting at BARC last night run by Gerry Fusco, the man hired to turn it around, and it is on track. If allowed to do so, Mr. Fusco can make a real difference, already has. So if you noted my absence in recent months from my favorite Swamplot and HAIF, it is because I have been so involved in that.
I spent the day there last Saturday, volunteering. I was there Sunday and picked up a cute little foster dog that is very sick. Yep, I have heard of what you speak, and I have chosen to try to be part of the solution.
all i have to say is WOW! this sure did bring up a lot of issues and let some true colors fly!
my thoughts, if a pack of wild dogs is roaming a neighborhood, watch the f’ out, and if you have to shot a dog to save your or your pets life, so be it.
I remember when there was a pack of wild dogs roaming Herman park, breaking into the zoo, and killing the goats in the petting zoo.
I would like to see who has the most creative solution to a pack of wild dogs, rather than just busting a cap in his ass!
Let me rephrase, I along with countless others have been working tirelessly recently, and some for years, to get significant change at BARC. We are cautiously optimistic that we are seeing the changes now. We need the citizens of this city to demand that change and to demand that the animal control be more effective in their roles in keeping our communities safe. Those dogs are not safe roaming either and must be picked up so they can either get back home, if lost, or hopefully, find a better more secure home. Sadly, many will be euthanized. That is why spay and neuter is equally, if not more important to this fight.
Find a vet willing to help with tranquilizer darts!
EMME: I too would love to get involved in the cause. I live in an area of town where the dog problem consists of more than a few that are running loose (East End). I am happy to participate in any way that I can do to help find a PROACTIVE and humane solution to this problem. As I mentioned earlier it is the negligent owners of these animals that who are at fault. From someone who has had a box of 5 sickly puppies abandonded in their yard in the middle of the night, and rescued countless strays that show up on my property, I am anxious to find a way to stop this. For me, it is a quality of life issue for us and all of the animals involved.
Ranger…glad to hear it. I have an idea that I am working through channels to bring spay and neuter much closer to the communities with the highest problems with sponsorship through those community’s local businesses and veterinarians. It will take local residents and homeowners to volunteer to help get this underway, but as I said, it is currently in the idea phase, but I want to get it into the execution phase quickly. I will email Gus and ask him to send you my email address. Thanks for your interest and your willingness to get involved.
One of the things BARC is doing is increasing the number of adoption events. The areas where there are the most stray pickups, owner turn-ins and loose dog reports, will not be included when choosing sites for mobile adoptions. It was suggested at city council that that is discriminating against those in that area. My argument was exactly what you just stated. That there are very responsible petowners in these areas that are carrying the burden of taking care of the strays and don’t want to make it any easier for the irresponsible to adopt more. Seriously, all the input and new ideas are not only welcome, but much needed. We need to put a dent in this problem for all of our quality of life. Yours, mine and even Matt and kjb’s. We all count.
CK: Understand that truth is the defense again slander.
marketingwiz,
How is calling someone a “hillbilly” a truth?
How is owning a gun considered akin to a stereotype of a backwoods country bumpkin?
More people in urban areas carry guns than you think for self defense. Not having a gun or being against them doesn’t make you appear more enlightened. Comments like yours take away from commenters that are actually contributing some substance to the topic.
CK, you always spice things up. While calling someone a moron or their speak moronisms may be rude and improper, it’s just an opinion. definition of slander: An untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person’s reputation or standing in the community.
Sorry, but untruthful doesn’t fit here.
“The last thing I want to do is put my security and safety in the hands of the city. That is just asking for trouble.”
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The last thing I want to do is put my security and safety in the hands of a trigger-happy ‘individual’ whose knee-jerk reaction to an animal problem is to shoot it.
And EMME, you are spot on. The ultimate solution to this problem is spaying and neutering.
and kjb, I have missed your moronisms. :)
@Angie…5th generation Houstonian, Heights resident here. The last thing I want in MY city is vigilanteism or isolationism. May I suggest you just stay in your house all the time and that way you don’t have to be bothered by all those them’s.
KJ: Your own postings have defined you as having – at the very least – a hillbilly mentality. Read’em, starting with Post #1. But you really revealed yourself with Post #25 showing that your intolerance and distaste for animals in general extends to squirrels and Mockingbirds. WTF? And I quote “A simple pellet rifle does the trick to kill most small pests (squirrels and mockingbirds). For dogs and cats, it works well as a sting to remind them to stay away and they’ll heal after that. That’s how my father took care of these pest growing up. We weren’t necessarily into killing them until they became a serious nuisance, because then we’ll have to deal with disposing of the animals.”
Yep-a-roo-hoo, I’d say hillbilly isn’t too much of a stretch. I rest my case.
What would you rather someone do to save their trees and gardens from squirrels and mockingbirds? Poison? Then they will go off and die somewhere else and become problem for others to clean up if they leave the property. The pellet rifle takes care of the problem without being dangerous to neighbors. There isn’t even any noise from firing a pellet rifle. Most people won’t even what happened. Squirrels and mockingbirds are in no way endangered and actually survive better in urban habitats because of human presence. Their numbers fall off dramatically in wild untouched habitats. They fall in the same category as a rat or mouse, but I guess living in a tree means they have a higher classification (or cute factor) than a rat or mouse?
What intolerance and distaste for animals? I have my own dog. I have owned cats growing up. I’ve had to put down a rabid dog when I was growing up with a gun to save my cat and little sister. I house sit for friend’s dogs when they go out of town.
Just because you disagree with a potential solution doesn’t mean you can slander someone.
If you did read my post, you would see I don’t support the idea of using high powered guns that will cause more of a problem. The pellet rifle is simple, quiet and fairly easy to shoot and hit your target.
And responsible gun owners are the last ones to misuse a firearm of any type. The characterization of someone who uses a gun as instantly irresponsible and dumb shows your complete lack of understanding of law abiding gun owners.
KJB it’s fair to say that we (the collective we, including marketiwiz probably) are not going to see eye to eye on this. I still think it’s kinda crazy that you brought up the whole pellet gun thing. Funny you should mention them at all – you haven’t been driving around Rice U in a white pick-up lately, have you? (That’s a joke people – feel I should point that out.)
EMME – I would also be interested in getting involved with the initiative you mentioned. I live on the SE side and my neighborhood has seen several variations of stray dog packs over the past few years, and I know that most of my neighbors’ dogs are not neutered. I would be willing to be an advocate for spay/neuter in my community.
My last comment on this whole brouhaha – I’ve adopted two heights-area strays in the past two years, so some of the current garden oaks terrierists could be my girls’ relatives! Perhaps that’s why I took umbrage to the neighbors in arms comments earlier on in this discussion.
Matt wrote:
…And you better have a dead pet or a dead person lying next to the dog you just shot – particularly if it wasn’t part of the pack of wild dogs but merely another dog that wandered into your yard and in fact belonged to the county sheriff who lives next door. …
Keyword in the statute is “livestock†and this law like so many others means one thing when you live in the country. Quite another thing when you live in the city.
——————————-
You don’t have to have a dead pet or person to justify the use of deadly force against an animal. The statute specifically says:
A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed…
That means that if the next door neighbor’s dog is getting ready to attack your cat, you can kill the dog with no comebacks. Note the statute is not limited to dogs attacking livestock, but includes “domestic animals” which means cats, dogs, birds, etc.
marketing wiz – they were away for the weekend, as they usually were – and left their dogs in the back yard with very little shelter. And no – they did not apologize or fix the fence either. That’s how irresponsible jerks behave.
My observation: architecture lovers are neighborhood lovers are animal lovers!
* sigh* (of relief)
There is hope for our species.
To Jessica1: I also own a potential “terrierist.†I love your term! And thank gosh she’s seven and has somewhat less energy.
Ahh.. dont mind KJB. That boy aint no hillbilly, I guarantee it. He dont know a thing about guns.
First, he talks about “a 22-gauge or a 9mm” as being overkill. Not sure what a 22 gauge is, but then again, neither does he. The he posits a pellet rifle would be fine for taking out a 80-90 lb dog. Ha! I bet good money on the dog on that one. Then he refers to his 22 gauge (common shotgun gauges are 12, 16, and 20) and the 9mm as “high powered guns that will cause more of a problem”. Of course, high powered refers to center fired rifle calibers. But dont expect KJB to know that.
Why, I would be surprised if the man even owns a gun.
Like a previous poster says, that boy just likes to argue.
Wow I am coming into this late but the fur hs really been flying here. Let me just say that calling HPD will likely also result in shot dogs. A friend had to call over a menacing pit in their neighborhood and the cop came out and shot the dog on the spot rather than wait for BARC who was on their way. Hope Sunset Heights doesn’t have quite so many trigger happy folks. We too have roaming packs of dogs. Doubt anyone is claiming them and even if they are they should not expect them to be safe from BARC if they are allowing them to roam the streets. BARC is in the midst of awesome overhauling that will change the outcome for many vulnerable animals. And, you sure are a busy bee Emme!
“As for the cats being abused and deserving somehow to be mauled and killed and therefore being “guilty victims†along with their owners, shove it.”
I never said that.
I have had cats my whole life. Cats need an environment where they have things to keep them interested, things to scratch, etc. All of which can be provided indoors.
“Crap in the garden” spreads disease to other animals, and I’m sorry, while everyone is going on about their right to shoot a dog that menaces them, along with that comes the right to shoot your cat if he’s coming onto my property, leaving behind potentially disease-carrying waste that my dog may get into, and digging up my plants to buy them. (Which I’d never do; had I not been about to move, I would have gotten a have-a-heart trap and captured the cat and taken it to BARC.)
At that same house my garage apartment neighbor who had a cat who was a feral kitten and would get nutty if he did not go outside. So she brought him outside and let him run around the yard while she watched, and if he tried to leave the yard, retrieved him. (He was pretty good friends with my dog, actually, my dog loves cats, having grown up with them.)
Yes, this takes effort. Having pets takes effort. Don’t have them if you don’t have time and energy for that.
And finally: preventing your animals from roaming is the law, so if you think you have a divine right to keep an animal that wanders the streets and craps in your neighbor’s yard, take it up with the city council.
By the way, Matt – now that I’m over being annoyed – I am sorry about your cat. Your cat should be safe in your own yard. And as a kid, I had the awful experience of seeing a stray German Shepherd come trotting into our yard and snap the family cat’s neck in front of me (I was five) – pretty awful, and I am sympathetic.
The background that gives me a short fuse on this is the cat situation I dealt with at my last house. There was one (non-stray, non-feral) cat in particular that was a major nuisance: he came into the yard. He sat at my back door and howled. This set off my indoor cat (now deceased) who would urinate by the back door (inside) to mark his territory (a normal feline behavior). Once I had the dog too, he’d go into barking fits (he loves cats, but was frustrated this interesting thing was outside the door meowing at him). It was just a nuisance.
I caught the cat crapping outside many times, which is not that trivial; cat waste is irresitable to dogs, and can carry worms, etc. Best care for my dog was that if he got into it, he got the runs briefly, which I had to clean up because I don’t leave my yard full of dog crap.
This cat would also come howl outside the door in the middle of the night.
I love cats, but this one was a total nuisance – and had a collar and tag with a phone number, which I called. The owner, who lived on the next street, said, “Oh, gosh, he doesn’t like to stay inside.”
Which is just not an acceptable answer. I have a dog. I take him out for walks daily, and clean up after him if he defecates. I’ve trained him so that if he wants to mark a neighbors plants, I can tell him not to and he won’t. I don’t let him run up onto people’s yards. I’ve spent lots of time outside in the yard with him teaching him not to bark and neighbors. i don’t leave him outside to get bored and bark and dig. I’ve taught him to stay right by my side when strangers pass, because he’s a big dog, and some people are nervous about big dogs, and they have a right to walk down the sidewalk without fear. If I see someone who looks uncomfortable as we approach, I step aside and put him into a sit-stay so they can be comfortable.
When I get a pet – and I have always had pets – I do so knowing that I am taking on the responsibility not just for that pet’s welfare, but also for being a good neighbor to everyone around me. unfortunately, a lot of cat owners seem to think that a cat can’t possible be a nuisance – but they can, and often are, and as I see tons of cats wandering around, it bugs me.
I was in the process of moving so I just let it go with the nuisance cat at my old house. Had I not been moving, i would have caught him (not hard, he was not afraid of people), taken him to a shelter, and called the owner to let her know where to find him, and done that until the problem stopped.
I have probably made assumptions about you and your cats, and I apologize for that. I’m sorry about the loss of your cat. I just ask that you remember that cats can be a problem for your neighbors, and if your cats are defecating in their yards, disturbing their pets or children, etc., please don’t shrug it off as a small thing; it may not be for the people around you.
I’m someone who would never harm a cat, even a pest cat. But someone else might react to the stuff I described by just shooting a cat. Better not to let the situation reach that point.
Jessica1 – I was one of those folks shot with a pellet gun at RU on Sunday. Hit two times by an airsoft, both wounds drawing blood, swelling, and leaving a couple of golf ball sized black and purple bruises.
I was relieved it was just a pellet gun, but rest assured the Mossberg is now handy in the SUV. But for a split second, I thought I was being shot at with a REAL gun.
Now that I’m prepared(superior firepower;), next time this happens would I be out of line to harvest a couple of punk Mexican teenagers?
FYI – I’m a proud hillbilly descendant.
markd, after seeing your post about harvesting animals, me thinks perhaps the attack was not random?
just sayin’
(I am actually quite sorry you had to experience that. I hope they catch the guys.)
EMME – Let me guess… you’re also a vegan?
Oh crap!
I may push buttons, but I’m not going to start making assumptions markd.
Whether you eat meat or not does have much bearing on this issue.
kjb is my tireless hero :)
who can often be tiresome :(
but always controversial :0
Nazi. OK, Godwin’s Law is now in effect. Thread closed.
Not so fast wilf.
I forwarded this thread to Gerry Fusco, the change agent at BARC and I just read on another site that BARC is doing sweeps of the neighborhood, picking up stray dogs. Sounds like he pays attention. Please support change at BARC. Volunteer, adopt, foster. Keep your pets secure, because no matter how good BARC gets, you never, ever want them to go there.
From markd:Now that I’m prepared(superior firepower;), next time this happens would I be out of line to harvest a couple of punk Mexican teenagers?
So they caught the four suspects, not one of them with a hispanic name.
So why are you going after Mexican teenagers?