Signs have been going up and coming down around the West End site Walmart is reportedly buying. Yesterday, Swamplot reported that signs posted over the weekend across from Koehler St. on Yale had been taken down, though a representative of the planning firm hired for the project told blogger Nicholas Urbano, who’s been protesting the development, that the removal had been a mistake and that the signs would be back up soon. They are up now, Urbano reports. But the two other signs surrounding the Walmart site (for the replatting of a portion of the Houston Heights Addition, shown above) have been removed. Another member of the “Stop the Heights Wal-Mart!” group reported on the group’s Facebook page that an engineer he encountered on the property told him that Ainbinder Company would now be “looking to present this a different way” at the August 5th planning commission meeting.
The Yale St. variance sign, now back up:
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- Ruh – Roh [They Are Building a Wal-Mart on My Street]
- Stop the Heights Wal-Mart! [Facebook]
- Previously on Swamplot: The West End Walmart and the Disappearing Variance
Photos: Nicholas Urbano and Stop the Heights Wal-Mart!
I cant wait for WalMart to come to the area. Its great news. I dont think it will have as bad of an effect all the stuck up people say it will. Think of all the smaller towns that have it and they handel it just fine. We need this in the inner loop now!!!!
There are tons of Wal-Marts in Houston already. It is not like we are struggling for need of another one. We should take pride in being a diverse city, with the rare ability to balance big box stores and local neighborhoods. This quality attracts businesses and families. And if we want to get people to visit, notice that the recent NYTimes tourist column on Houston did not mention Wal-Marts, but rather smaller more unique neighborhoods. I don’t except Houston to become a top tourist destination, but well preserved neighborhoods could provide a low-key vibe that brings people in, while easy freeway access to large stores makes it easier to live in those actual neighborhoods.
We don’t need this in the inner loop now. If you want the suburban experience GO LIVE THERE!
They’re building a Supercenter on Silber and I-10. Isn’t that close enough?
All the people supporting Walmart always use the “stuck-up” argument for not supporting Walmart. This is far from it.
This specific location is better suited for a small, non-24 hour business since it is being built in the middle of neighborhoods (West End, Houston Heights & Washington Heights). Technically, it is in West End neighborhood and that is one of the reasons for the variance. This is not just a Walmart but also all the retailers that come as a package with Walmart. I think walmart has 10 retailers that come with a Supercenter. For example, look at Sawyer Target area, it has the same retailers as their stores in West Houston and North Houston.
The the neighborhood streets cannot support the traffic increase. Yale and Heights cannot support 10K increase in car traffic or 24/7 delivery 18-wheelers. They want to open and connect Heights and Yale so that Walmart trucks & cars can have more access and the city does not have to approve a traffic study.
Walmart is not helping the city ith tax revenue. It is getting a TRIZ tax break in addition to shifting revenue from other retailers in the area. The end result, some of the others will close and empty parking lots/buildings devalued properties around them. Walmart like development will devalue all it’s surrounding property. Bottom line: city and the community loses.
All the studies show increase in crime around Walmart and in their parking lot. Walmart is unwilling to spend money unlike many other retailers to have their vast parking lots patrolled.
In addition, this site is next to White Oak Bayou watershed. Paving a massive piece of land will be determintal and increased immediate and downstream flooding.
Finally, this site planning goes against city and SN22 vision for Washington Ave corridor that have community support. This would have a negative impact on property tax revenue for the city.
Rights of Walmart to build should not take limit the rights of the people around this property who would face de-valued property and increased traffic, increased flooding, flood lits from 24/7 store, and lower quality of life.
Many of these people chose to live here in higher priced, smaller houses to get away from a Walmart. If they wanted a bigger house, there are 50+ Walmarts in Houston suburbs. As for access to a nearest Walmart, I-10 and Silber is less than 10 mins away in traffic!
“while easy freeway access to large stores makes it easier to live in those actual neighborhoods.”
“As for access to a nearest Walmart, I-10 and Silber is less than 10 mins away in traffic!”
And people who don’t have cars really shouldn’t be living in my neighborhood. They should move to one of those other neighborhoods near an existing Walmart. Kill two birds with one stone.
More like the surbano racist classist snobbery. Don’t like it, don’t shop there.
Aren’t all Wal-Marts built in a neighborhood? It’s not like they’d build one in the middle of nowhere, with no potential customers around to support it. The one on Dunvale was built in a neighborhood. So was the one in Meyerland. It appears that the one on Silber is going to be built in a neighborhood. So, why is it okay for Wal-Mart to build in those neighborhoods, but it’s not okay to build one in the Heights? Is it somehow special?
Who are you to determine whether one is needed there? Isn’t that Wal-Mart and the developer’s decision? They are spending millions to build this. They aren’t stupid. They know many people in the immediate area will shop there.
Yes, the Heights is special. And the one in Meyerland is awful. There was a wonderful park there with ducks! But admittedly, Meyerland also used to be a lot further out than it is now. Expansion and development made it a prime location, and there is an argument that the Wal-Mart serves the community better than the former park and golf driving range. However, for everything else that it is, Meyerland always way suburbia. The Heights and Washington Corridor can be something different. We should want a city that has everything, not just Wal-Marts.
Irfan needs to get facts correct when posting as they are stretching the truth:
10K increase in traffic: this is a number that continues to get quoted which was the average for much larger locations whereas the number for this size would actually be closer to 7k per day.
Walmart deliveries are not 24/7 as their deliveries are at night.
Koehler would not be opened for the trucks but probably just cars for the development across from Walmart (otherwords it would be developed even if HEB was coming instead of Walmart)
Also related to the trucks, the plans show a direct entry from the feeder road so not all traffic (especially trucks) would enter from Yale.
Regarding the TRIZ tax break – how can they ALREADY be getting a break when they haven’t even confirmed the development.
Regarding crime, Walmart actually has one of the most expensive and sophisticated surveillance systems so I would challenge you to cite real studies (studies not originating from anti-Walmart groups) that shows that a Walmart parking lot is less safe than any other comparable type facility with large open parking areas.
Regarding the watershed, you forget that this was a large industrial facility already that was fully paved. If anything, the redevelopment should help get the area up to current city drainage standards.
As far as their rights verses your rights, you moved into an urban area of the 4th largest city in the US. At some point change happens. You won’t win this one so why not try to work with the developer to at least make sure what they build is a complement to the area verses an eyesore.
We can probably debate this forever, but I would ask that if you continue to bash Wal-mart (which is ok), use the correct info instead of inflated facts.
Lets all be honest. The people against wal mart dont want this in what is already a downward moving area due to all the clubs, cheap townhomes and useless streets. THIS IS NOT HEIGHTS proper, is that not on the NORTH side of I-10? Hello this is on the south side of I-10. Closer to what is Upper West End I think. People who dont want it know what will happen their already stuffy, stucco three story odd design cant sell and now surely wont sell with Wal-Mart the exact opposite of cool and classy…Nicole said it best Wal-Mart what do they sell walls? No you get a cool group of hood rats, clubs girls looking for plan B and the WT crowd!!! Be honest.
Evan, when you say “We should want a city that has everything, not just Wal-Marts.” what you actually mean of course is that we should want a city that has everything except a Wal-Mart. There are many people living close to this site who want and will use this store, many of whom do not have access to a car to drive to another Wal-Mart further afield. Why should the chattering class get to tell everyone else what retailer they can and can’t have access to?
People living in that area act as if it is a veritable “garden spot” that should be left in its virgin pristineness. Get real!! That area is an eyesore. Every time I drive through the proposed location, I think to myself how unsightly this area is-the vista is redolent of a vacated, industrial wasteland overgrown by weeds, dilapidated shacks, and telephone poles.
Didn’t they close the one on Dunvale because of crime and tossed diapers?
Ha. The folks without cars will be forced out of the area soon enough…..
evan,
i would just note that meyerland begins on one side of 610 (the outside), and the north end of the heights begins on one side of 610 (the inside). and in between the heights and meyerland is the galleria, upper Kirby, the village, and greenway–places that have traditionally been the heart of the city, and all of which are about equal distant or closer to meyerland. so, im not exactly sure why you think meyerland is “way surbia”.
Let me interpret the language of the anti-walmart crowd. Opposed due to traffic, crime,etc. Translation: We do not want all those brown people in our area, coming down from north of the loop and east of I-45. We want to maintain the “brown line” where it is now.
Norhill Joe really is hitting this on the head. Wal-Mart will give many people in the area the ability to have access to goods they currently do not.
You can stand on your soap box and bitch about cheaply made in China this and that, but to the lower and lower-middle income citizen that point is irrelevant. Their pocket book is critical to their daily lives.
i think it all just comes down to property values as that’s all folks care about these days. i think they’re ignoring the fact that west end has been considerably cheaper than the heighs/montrose specifically because it’s still a redeveloping neighborhood and things like this could happen. it’s already been priced into the area so they should just accept it. they’re more than welcome to move to the heights/montrose if they don’t like it. it’s not like anyone chose the west end because it’s a good place to be, they chose it because it was a cheaper option.
NorhilJoe couldn’t agree more, though I’m certainly not drawing any lines..
Hmmm – I live in the Heights and it is very “Brown.” If we had a problem with that then we would have moved our happy asses to the ‘white’ Burbs. But hey when you cannot win an argument – make it about race. This is about Wal-Mart bags in our yards and an obscene amount of traffic. Though I do agree that those that bought houses next to the lot took a gamble (a big gamble) and it looks like they may lose. I hope not.
Dear Joe,
You sound like a typical democrat. When you can’t discuss/argue rationally, THROW OUT THE RACE CARD!!! (See what I did? I generalized him as a “typical” democrat just like he did about people against Wal-Mart). The last time I checked, there are tons of BROWN people in the heights. I live in the heights and don’t really want the Wal-Mart either. Does that mean I don’t like “Brown” people?!? Better not tell my wife or kids because she is brown and they are part brown too.
Norhill Joe = racist tool
Now,now NorhillJoeHater. Dont be hatin. I have no reason to doubt your statement regarding your affinity for “brown” people, including your wife and children. I am using the “brown” example to point out what is really more a class issue. The lower income or lower class in this case happens to be “brown” If it was in the Woodlands/Conroe it would be East Texas rural. However you choose to define it, the opposition to wal mart is due to more than traffic, crime and ‘wal-mart bags in our yards’
to be consistent, since we’re already calling hispanics “brown”, east texas rural should be read as “white trash”.
Uh it’s a pretty solid fact that the suburbs are not all white anymore, I went to Klein HS (class of 93) and it was 94% Caucasian. Now it’s about 55-60% Caucasian. What’s causing this? Gentrifying Jesus is the short answer (haha). The white flight from the burbs has been in full effect since 2004-2005, while minority (or majority if you will) have been steadily moving to the burbs for years, apparently their mindset is to be sucessful or appear sucessful move out to Spring, Cypress, Klein, Tomball, Farfield, etc. Look at the sky rocketing crime on FM1960 to validate that point, an area where crime used to amount to kid’s pranks, skateboarders, and maybe the occasional shoplifter, someone was shot and killed at my ex GF’s old apartments right off 1960 and Stuebner airline, and I will say that kind of crime was non existent 10-15+ years back.
Also it’s certainly no wonder why the 4th ward shrinks every year, no wonder why I get the finger from the African American’s we’ve steadily been replacing (I live in Alden place/Temple terrace) and it butts right up to what little of the 4th ward/freedman’s is left. I suspect these displaced folks will wind up in Stinkadena, Misery City, Aldine, or parts further North. I’d like to say I’m sorry property has become so valuable that it’s a necessity for you to relocate, but I also take solace in knowing my home has been in the same family for 74 years. Partisan politics has nothing to do with this discussion, and you take this whole conversation into the mud when you involve politics. I believe Republicans are inherently greed mongers, but what bearing does that have on this conversation? None.
The Ducks in the park are white, right?
I can’t believe we are now talking about ducks and race.
I feed the black swans and the white ducks, somehow it isn’t an issue to them (or me0..
sic. (me)
Ah good. So when you accuse suburban people of racist/classist snobbery, at least you’re speaking from your own personal experience. Equating violent crime on 1960 with less white people, nice!
Truth and the crime statistics don’t lie. Quite the contrary, the balancing of the race issue in that area has made it far more attractive to criminals. Where as unless you’re setting on a very nice nest egg downtown/4th ward area there is good chance due to rising property values you’re going to wind up relocating to the burbs. It’s still falsely believed that the suburbs are safer than inner loop Houston and that just isn’t the case any more. I don’t blame people for putting 2 and 2 together, and deciding to move inside the loop, for any number of reasons from culture, to colleges, to crime rates, they all factor in. If you don’t think race is factor related to crime rates, then take a look at the prison system for reference and it’s inherent hypocrisy. I don’t agree with the stereoypes but it’s hard to ignore the net results you’ll see in neighborhoods I used to call home. If that’s racist terribly sorry, I prefer to call it a realistic appraisal of demographic and ethnographic changes taking place in this great city of ours. I’ve worked with Rice and it’s project to track Houston and it’s trends, and really isn’t difficult to deduce some of the major demographic shifts that are taking place. Don’t like it? Start an after school program, volunteer at Y, tutor a child, put a felon to work, don’t just throw out the racism card and expect that it will level the playing field.
It’s not color that degrades areas. It’s economics. The student body in the older area of the Klein district (like Aldine, Spring, and others which used to be the white ‘burbs) is 60-70% free-lunch qualified, today.
“If that’s racist terribly sorry, I prefer to call it a realistic appraisal of demographic and ethnographic changes taking place in this great city of ours.”
No, I understand what you’re saying, but what you seem unable to comprehend is that by your own metric, you should be on the side of the people fighting the Wal-Mart, instead of resorting to “if you don’t like it, don’t shop there.” Unless, of course, you’re assuming people in the West End don’t care about crime, or, even worse, if you are trying to put the Wal-Mart there specifically to bring crime into somebody else’s neighborhood.
I just moved out of Rice Military (Feagan at Snover) and was a resident of that area for some time about 10 years. That land is an overgrown lot of nothingness. While I am a democrat (like it matters) I’m all for capitalism and the free market. As opposed to making thinly veiled classist remarks, or talking about how it brings crime, I just don’t buy that, and I just don’t buy what Wal Mart sells. Yes I am pragmatic.
My first gut reaction was #$$k that, not in my back yard. Then I rode my bike over there as I have dozens of times before and realized the land could be put to better use, and it will serve the people who shop there, which won’t include me. If they were tearing down say Allen Parkway Village I would be vehemently opposed to it, but in essence Wally world is capitalizing on a prime piece of unused land, in a good location that isn’t currently being served. Again it would be utterly hypocritical to oppose this, unless you have some definitive proof of it doing damage. And don’t get me started on Mr. Urbano, couldn’t you find a somewhat more articulate spokes person? The guy just reeks of self serving @$$hole.
Forget the race baiting, it is a ridiculous argument. As a long time Heights resident, here are my reasons for not wanting the Wal-Mart, plain and simple with no “underlying motive.”
1) Traffic increase on Yale. More cars, traffic, new on/off ramps. Don’t want it.
2) The increase of grocery carts that will be strewn all up and down Yale. Hell, there is one on Yale and 7th street right now that has been on the curb for over a week. This annoys me to no end.
3) It will be dirty, dirty, dirty in no time. Just look at the new Kroger on 11th. If you go in the mornings, the parking lots all the way to Radio Shack are covered in litter. I spoke with an employee at the Tuesday Morning store and they try to clean up, but just can’t keep up with the litter that the people have no problem dropping all over the parking lot.
In conclusion, yes it probably is a class thing (not a race thing). A lot of lower class (not all of them) just don’t care about keeping things nice as we in the heights have fought hard to do. I say, “You are building one right down I-10, so we don’t need a Wal-Mart with a built in McDonalds and a Subway next door and a check cashing place next to that. Call me a snob with this thinking, I care not.”
The whole anti-WalMart argument is nothing but snobbery. “Ewww, an icky WalMart with it’s bourgeois clientele. Why don’t they put something useful in, like a day spa or an art gallery or a French wine boutique? Oh dear, don’t drive by that store, those minorities with their 20 year old American cars can’t drive.” I live in Rice Military and it amuses me to no end to see my neighbors constantly get their feathers ruffled over the latest change coming to the area. Get used to it kids. One day this neighborhood will be a slum, but it won’t be because of WalMart, rather it’ll be the falling apart cheaply built housing everyone’s so proud of these days.
So George,
Who is leaving the litter all over the new Kroger parking lot?
It wouldn’t be folks that live in the Heights would it?
PYEWACKET2,
To answer your question, per the manager of Kroger and a worker at Tuesday Morning, the majority of trash is being left by the day laborers that they cannot seem to remove and the residents of the apartment complex that butts up to the stores on the Durham side. Go look at the amount of trash coming down Durham starting before the quikmart (corner 11th and Durham) and how the trash flows until the end of those apartments. Also, check out the bus stops on the right side of Durham and count the trash and grocery carts. I’m sure that some of the heights residents contribute to it but we are not the majority of it. If you go down 19th street or at the Kroger on 20th or the Fiesta on 14th, or C&D hardware on 11th, you don’t see near the amount of trash. Hmmm, wonder why that is.
Kudos, first to admit the real reasons people oppose this, and made some valid arguments too. Yes I too have seen Kroger on 11th, and 20th and yes the carts do get strewn all over the place, and most certainly causes additional traffic.
Though it’s hilarious to me how NO ONE cares about the Whole paycheck foods being built on West Dallas @ Waugh, the same result will be occuring in my neighborhood, but since it’s yuppy-centric no one seems to mind. Apples and oranges? maybe not..
I think most of you are ignoring the elephant in the room and that is the new I-10 feeder roads with new on/off ramps. This, combined with the new Walmart, is going to make area traffic horrendous. With that being said, my wife and I can’t wait and will probably shop there often.
I don’t know about all this “brown-site” business but what I do know is that for many years a long-bearded man squatted in and around the building on Yale near the underpass creating a huge eyesore. I don’t know if it was due to him or asbestos or something else but before they demo’d that building I personally saw it being cleaned out by guys in full-on Hazmat suits, respirators and all. This was not and is not the “natural space” some of you are reffering to it as. Walmart will definitely be an improvement.
To all: Please stop protesting, there are many less desirable developers/tenants that could be building there.
You have tact, and a better point..
George,
I live no where near the Heights but I am inside the loop on the southeast side.
We had a situation with a large apartment complex that backs up to our neighborhood. It’s much larger than the ones on Durham. An officer member of our civic association paid a visit to the manager’s office there and guess what? The situation improved.
Instead of tsk tsking, why not have someone from your very large civic association call on the managers and discuss the matter. It might help.
@ George J:
With regard to your comment about all the trash around Kroger, you have hit on a pet peeve of mine. Why is it that Kroger staff don’t seem to ever bother to remove trash from the carts as they collect them from the parking lot? It seems that their lack of attention to this simple detail reveals a general lack of concern for the condition of their store and parking lot. I understand that the bus stop and day laborers generate trash, but to date, Kroger has shown no sign of stewardship for the property their store occupies? I suspect that Walmart takes a similar attitude toward its properties…
2 words, minimum wage. Or lax management, take a photo show the manager on duty, you might get some results..
I have to say, I’m against it. My partner and I moved here to escape the cookie-cutter strip mall hell that is suburban Houston. The point of downtown for us was that it was unique, different, fresh. This area gave us a sense of the past through its buildings.. a past before everything was plastic, extreme-mass-market, all junk culture all the time.
These handmade wooden homes, with their old windows that have been looked through for a lifetime or more, sitting in their garden lots.. even if the homes need work.. they give you a different feeling from all the beige bullshit we grew up around in suburban Houston. Since then, the beige bullshit has been on the march.
If the townhomes had been mostly metal & modern like the early ones, it might have been different. With more people willing to rehabilitate the bungalows (and come on people, it’s hard work, but not difficult to do yourself).. it could have been different. What the beige boxes and the big boxes represent is the zoned out, substance-dependent, low brain activity, de-volutionary culture that is so much of America today. This area could have been different. It should have been.
Instead…the alcoholic-Lexus-yuppies are building a subculture of mindless consumption right here in the heart of the city!.. and their drug dealers are conveniently located too! So let’s all welcome the king of the trashy strip malls! All hail lord Wal-Mart and all the other corporate giants. Who needs those crummy independently owned stores anyways! Target brought us a Chile’s, maybe if we’re good we’ll get a Bennigans and a McDonalds! .. and cheap booze! Get the bulldozers warmed up, there’s still more bungalows needin’ dumpsterin!
Uh are you smoking what you’re selling? I was following you for some of that, bennigans went bankcrupt in 2008 overnight. Yuppies don’t buy drugs though, they doctor shop at pain clinics..
cm=Corey…what the heck are you talking about…you’re rambling all through this story…typical racist snob from the the douche bag Washington area…I hope they build 18 walmarts…plus 15 kmarts just to piss you yuppies off…and btw the wash corridor and the heights is still crappy looking….one nice building a dilapidated piece of land next to it…and that pattern goes on and on…and thats crip…
Its that big bad bandanna swangin g’z all day my dude and thats on crip…CARIIIIIP!!!!
Hmmmm… Koothyman, would you translate that last post for us non gansta types?
He enjoys selling very small amount of canabis, and is comfortable flaunting that fact.
Real talk g..
Urban translation mode: off. Wheh..
First time I’ve been called a douche, imagine that. Care to check my closet for affliction shirts and or comic book art styled t-shirts circa 2008? Though I’m sure as hell not wearing FUBU ghetto crap either. You’d more likely find that I’m an affable normal looking gent, not dead set on conspicuous consumption. I can translate that as needed, if it came off too crackerly for you mahn…
I’m with NorhillJoe. But, I didn’t get #48 OR #50. The good thing is, it really doesn’t matter.
@ Jimmy K.
Walmart trucks from I-10 (after feeder expansion) can Bonner, and Bass St will be open to I-10 feeder. These are neighborhood streets. Additionally, they will have to turn onto Koehler to get into Walmart if they are coming from Bass St.
Second, the 10K car traffic increase is from some government transportation studies for a Box store supercenter type development.
#48 is pretty nonsensical agreed, #50 is what little I could translate for you.
Instead of whining about the Wal-Mart, why don’t all y’all raise a bunch of money and place a higher bid on the lot. Then you can do whatever the heck you want with it.
The bottom line is the opponents of the Wal-Mart do not get to choose the retailer. The developer who took the economic risk and purchased an old steel mill, then developed the land does. End of Story!
The New 152,000 SF Bungalow!
Congratulations Houston! We now have a one-dimensional Mayor, one with a single objective, i.e., to protect us against evil developers and Mac Mansions. So potent is she at this that she can go against the will of thousands of ‘historic district’ home-owners and deny them of their property rights by eliminating the 90-waiver. Such waiver was part of the reason many owners voted for ‘historic designation’ of their homes in their neighborhoods. So frozen on her single mindedness that she forgets the ‘historic neighborhood’ concept was sold as protection against the type of project Wal-Mart will build.
So one-dimensional that when it comes to other important issues like the new Wal-Mart , Mayor Parker and City Council say they are helpless (read “It’s Official: Wal-Mart coming to Heights Areaâ€, Houston Chronicle, Sunday August 1, 2010). Many council members even hint of tax breaks for the project developers “…to compensate [developers] for infrastructure upgrades…†I wonder if these ‘upgrades’ will include the brand new ramp off I-10 that delivers Wal-Mart shoppers to the project at the expense of city tax-payers, and if Wal-Mart will compensate tax-payers for this ‘infrastructure’ gift, the increased police force security, and pay back owners for the loss in property values.
So one-sided, the logic would follow in Parker’s mind, that she is convinced that oh no, these are not evil developers of the kind that build Mac-Mansions and lower property values in neighborhoods. She ignores well researched statistics presented by concerned owners to City Council that carry evidence of the negative impact of such project on the neighborhood.
Let’s help Mayor Parker think inside her one-dimension. What if Parker and City Council declare the land for the new Wal-Mart Supercenter part of the Heights ‘protected district’. That way Wal-Mart will be forced to build a GIANT 152,000 SF Bungalow; it will be ‘historic’; it will do wonders for tourism.
I am a major bargain shopper and I can still find good deals without resorting to a big box store like Target or Walmart. For the price of a new pair of cheaply made new shorts at Walmart, I can get second hand pair of Calvin Kleins at the Goodwill down the road. Walmart is a ‘bad business’ in that most of its employees with children are living below the poverty line among other practices, like their ‘Dead Peasant’ life insurance policies they secretly took out on workers, without sharing benefits with their widowed spouse or families. The main reason we don’t want a Walmart gracing the realms of the Heights and Montrose area is that we moved out here to get the hell away from all of that in the first place.
We need this is our neighborhood folks. It will add to the value of our homes by offering shopping diversity…and don’t say Target is in the same market..they are not. In stead of driving long distances and adding to our carbon footprint, we can shop local. Love the idea. More shopping options, lower inflation, more jobs, certainly an improvement in the properties land useage, etc. A win win win for all if people would just open their eyes and not just want to be in the uppity trendy slogan crowd.