Could Coyotes Be Killing the Kitties Of Timbergrove and Lazybrook?

COULD COYOTES BE KILLING THE KITTIES OF TIMBERGROVE AND LAZYBROOK? timbergrove-cat-killer-coyoteOver the past six years Jennifer Estopinal has recorded the violent demises of about two dozen house cats in Timbergrove and Lazybrook. Their manners of death have typically been grisly — some were beheaded, others bisected, in some cases paws were removed — and on some occasion the cadavers have appeared to have been left on display. It’s all been enough to raise suspicions that a sicko serial kitty killer was at work. There is now a hefty bounty on the alleged predator’s head: four different donors have cobbled together a kitty of almost $25,000 in reward money. But might the killings simply be nature taking its course? Last month a coyote was sighted brazenly attempting to enter the lobby of the Bayou Bend Towers at Memorial and Westcott. More recently, Estopinal and husband Mark saw another of the canine carnivores while out patrolling Timbergrove in search of the culprit. At the corner of Ella and Grovewood (not far from forested W. 11th St. Park), the Estopinals saw and pursued a coyote, watching as it attempted to raid a pet-food bowl on a front porch, then chase a cat,  then scale a 6-foot privacy fence “with ease.” Mystery solved? Possibly, if only partially, Estopinal believes. “I’d like to believe a coyote is what’s been killing so many cats lately,” she posted in a neighborhood group message board. “I think its possible a few could have been but not all, as there are too many things that have been done that would’ve been impossible for a coyote.” [Houston News; CultureMap] Photo: Mark Estopinal

69 Comment

  • Yes! I fully believe it. I’ve seen coyotes near I-45 and N Main if you can believe it. They appear to be going along the small creeks and bayous to move around the city. I live in Glen Park (Northside) and I saw a coyote about 6 weeks ago. Completely shocked me because you don’t expect to see coyotes so close to home.

  • We have coyotes behind our property in Forest West along with other stray dogs that are likely wild by now, often hear the coyotes celebrating after a kill at night so this isn’t far fetched at all and is a much more likely explanation.

    Regardless cats should be kept inside or if outside confined to private property or on a leash just like dogs.

  • Coyotes are definitely a possibility. I saw one in front of my house in Montrose one morning several years ago. I was out for a morning walk, turned down the street and saw something that looked kind of like a dog standing in my driveway. I walked closer and saw he had a long, puffy tail and a long snout, so I promptly turned around and quickly walked away. By the time I had walked around the block, he was gone. I was very glad I didn’t have my dog with me.

  • A couple weeks ago I spotted a pair of coyotes on the Heights Bike Trail, just off White Oak, as I was heading back downtown from a concert at Fitz’s. It was about 2 a.m. They stood in the middle of the trail staring me down for a while until dashing off into the bushes that flank that part of the trail. I was definitely surprised to see them that close.

  • I’m sure Coyotes are responsible for killing some cats… but wasn’t one of the victim cats placed on a stake in the yard of the owners..???

  • Anyone who would kill cats in that manner qualifies for the death penalty in my opinion (as the person said, some of the deaths could not have been done by a coyote). Someone with a mind like that will never be an asset to society.

  • “there are too many things that have been done that would’ve been impossible for a coyote.” not even a Wylie Coyote?

  • Who else do you want to kill Mike?

  • A bounty??? What is this the 1800’s ? Let them be they deserve to live here just as much as we do. Keep your cat inside. If the cat roams then it is fair game.

  • Cats should be kept inside (or in an escape-proof yard — you can buy special fencing to keep cats in). Just because cats prefer to roam, doesn’t mean you should let them wander the neighborhood, killing birds; digging up neighbors’ gardens, ripping into trash bags and damaging property. Not to mention the danger of being hit by a car or hurt/killed by another animal. An inside cat lives a longer and healthier life.

    Coyotes have a right to live too.

  • I’d like to catch that coyote and his/her buddies and drop them off in the middle of the Heights, say Peddie and Studewood, if for no other reason than to allow hem to feast up on the copious amount of feral felines that, with impunity, shit in my front yard, sleep on the roof of my car at night, and chowdown on the local dove population.

  • i’m surprised nobodies devised a plan to get caught in the act just to collect on that reward money. that’s more than you get for a lead in most unsolved murder cases.

  • How can I get some coyotes in my neighborhood? Would love to see some of our cats polished off. Especially those that roam around freely on my property, licking my barbecue pit, putting paw prints and claw scratch marks on my freshly washed/waxed vehicles, yowling outside my windows at 3 am, etc.

    And based on the evidence presented, it sounds like most of these cases are some sadistic asshole, not coyotes. Finally, if coyotes are doing it, more power to them. Humans need to learn to live with nature. If you keep your pets secured, you will never have a problem with them.

  • Triton is correct. Just last night I ran the White Oak Bayou trail between Hogan and UH-Downtown and saw a coyote within a few yards of me, chasing rabbits. Pretty wild considering how close this location is to downtown.

  • Cats will certainly be safer if kept indoors. However, if there is a violent psychotic who is torturing animals, as a society, we would be prudent find that person and prevent him or her from doing additional harm.

    It seems like it’s more likely coyotes though, right? It would be kind of a coincidence if there were coyotes AND a cat-killing psycho roaming the hood.

  • Here on the south west side Meyerland Willobend we have a decent amount possums and raccoons. They could be killing small dogs and cats

  • Keep your cat on a leash or in your yard and this isn’t an issue!!!

  • Where was the photo taken and what is the source of the second, more recent part of the article?

  • Dear lord yes, a huge threat to the city is people’s pet cats wandering outside their yard, to think that Houston has overcome segregation and the 1980’s spike in gang violence only to succumb to cats napping on the porches of homes that aren’t even the homes of their owners! And just think of the owners, the presumptuous owners, who would let their cats stray beyond the surveyed boundaries of their property, violating the sacred contract between property owner and society upon which American civilization is based.

    “Especially those that roam around freely on my property, licking my barbecue pit, putting paw prints and claw scratch marks on my freshly washed/waxed vehicles, yowling outside my windows at 3 am, etc.”

    Need more stinging satire like this, because for all we know, there are actually people in Houston so pathetic that they would get upset that a neighbor’s cat licked their barbecue pit. (Please tell me that that was indeed satire, you never know with some of the folks on here…)

  • I’m guessing the four donors of $25k are really four crazy cat ladies.

  • Crazy cat ladies don’t have $25K.

  • Coyotes are part of the natural environment and were here before domesticated cats. They probably kill a few rats and opossums along the way, keeping their populations in check. Just keep the cats indoors, at least at night when coyotes are more active.

  • Glendower Court and Avalon have had several instances of coyote sightings and cat attacks over the last year. One resident called the TCWR, and they told her there was nothing they could do and that removing one coyote would not improve the problem. As long as we have a huge, beautiful park in the middle of the city, coyotes will continue to wander the streets during the latest hours of the night.

  • @Brian D:
    Possums aren’t cat killers. When approached by a cat or a dog, they’ll either back up and snarl or roll up in a ball and “play possum” to appear dead. On the other hand, raccoons are fighters and will go one-on-one with a cat or a dog. Most veterinarians have stories to tell about stitching up canine survivors of raccoon attacks.

  • @Mike – Let me list you some of the things that my neighbor’s precious kitties have done, just in my fenced backyard (which has a closed gate). 1. Torn into trash bags and scattered the debris all over. 2. Damaged my fence and brand-new gate by jumping and scrabbling over the top, ripping up the wood with their claws. 3. Jumped/climbed up an A/C drop line to tore though the eaves’ soffit vent mesh, in order to get into the attic (this will cost me a couple hundred bucks to have fixed — and yes, it was a cat because I saw it jumping down from the hole it had made in the soffit mesh). 4. Dug up flowerbeds. 5. Crapped in the yard without burying it. 6. Killed a neighbor’s pet chicken, dragging the body into the backyard, and leaving the body. 7. Killed birds and left those (uneaten) in the yard too. 8. Marked things by spraying on them. 9. And out on the driveway, made footprints all over freshly-washed cars. All done by cats. Cats whose owners let them run loose and do whatever.

    I don’t feel sorry when something happens to cats that are allowed to run around loose. Bring on the coyotes, I say!

  • Those domestic cats are out killing birds and other wildlife, so what goes around comes around….

  • So cats can damage a fence by climbing over it (must be a pretty dainty fence), tear open trash bags, occasionally cause actual damage to a house, and the worst – leave paw prints on a car. In other words, they’re about 1/10th the nuisance that children are. This is why I see the enduring value in old 50’s sitcoms, as corny as they can be. If a neighbor’s cat left paw prints on the police cruiser, you didn’t see Sheriff Taylor demanding that neighbors keep their cats indoors. More like a grin and shake of the head at seeing the trail of little prints. Try to enjoy life.

  • Amen, Mike. “But the wildest of all the wild animals was the Cat. He walked by himself, and all places were alike to him.” Indoor cats have demented personalities (as would you and I, no doubt, kept similarly captive). My friend’s ancient cat is confined to a back bedroom by the second strictly-indoor cat, who pounces if she tries to ventures into the passage. A responsible pet owner, no doubt, but it’s like “Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?” in there.
    Cats in the trash? I’m thinking that’s coons. Cats in the attic is probably ringtail cats.
    The best is yet to come: porcupines are making a comeback where I live. They will punish your dogs.

  • Keep your cats inside. Problem solved.

  • @mike – Yes, it licks my barbecue pit – and the tongs I used to flip my food, and the pans I used to transport my food in and out of the house, and the pit handle that I touch with my bare hands while cooking. I’ve even seen them lurking while I’m cooking, then they pounce as soon as I go back in the house. I’ve confirmed this with my security cameras.

    I have a problem with that because right before it spreads it saliva over my sterile cooking surfaces, it uses the same mouth to lick its ass and fur, kill mice and rats, and chew on things in peoples’ trash cans. While you may not have a problem sharing germs with your cat, I do and I am justified in my protestation.

    Jeezus is it even possible to discuss these problems with cat lovers? As soon as someone with a different viewpoint speaks up with a legitimate concern, the cat lovers jump up screaming bloody murder, shaming them back into submission. I know you love your cat…I’m not attempting to infringe on your rights or ability to do that…I’m just asking (as a neighbor) to keep it away from me.

  • Check out this article from yesterday

    [research has shown that hunting coyotes as a means of population control can have counterproductive effects: Under pressure, coyotes can actually produce larger litters with higher survival rates, a behavior known as compensatory reproduction. It’s another hallmark of their incredible adaptability.

    Plus, predators are as much a part of ecosystems as any other plant or animal. “You simply cannot remove coyotes… without then being overrun by rats and rabbits and all that,” Tim Revell, a professor of biology at Mt. St. Antonio College, told KNBC. “You create an evolutionary pressure on those that are left, that are smarter than that. They’ll survive, reproduce and it becomes more and more of a problem.”

  • Two more things I forgot to mention…

    1. The comparison of kids to cats is a red herring. The neighborhood kids don’t jump my fence, mark up my car, kill birds at my bird feeder, or lick my barbecue pit. And if they did, I have a way to address the issue by speaking with their parents, and if that doesn’t work, I call the police. With cats, my only options involve dealing with a crazy, defensive cat lovers like you, or committing a crime by physically harming it.

    2. When I find claw marks raking down the paint on my brand new $40,000 vehicle that I just had washed and waxed, followed by a trail of muddy paw prints (cameras again confirmed the cat slipped and fell on the first jump, using claws on the way down, then made it up the second time) – that really pisses me off.

    And it’s not because I’m abnormally dyspeptic or a terrible human being. I worked hard for that vehicle, and take pride in keeping it in tip top shape, and need it perfect for work (scratches affect the resale value, and paw prints have to be cleaned off before I pick up clients for lunch appointments). Now do you understand why I might find that annoying? Oh wait…you are incapable of seeing another perspective…you’re a cat person.

  • Coyotes or not:

    All reported cases of cat-killings and cat-mutilations are being totally misread and misunderstood by cat-lickers. (Like that’s any surprise, have they ever understood ANYTHING in their lives? No.)

    Each dead or mutilated cat is a blatantly clear, perfectly just, and wholly equitable message right back to the criminally irresponsible and criminally negligent cat-lickers. That message goes like this: “See what happened to your cat? This is what your animal did to the animals that I love, animals who evolved to be here, who have every right to be on this planet right where they are, your man-made invasive species vermin cats DO NOT. Enjoy your maimed/mutilated/dead cat, you lousy disrespectful piece-of-sh** for a human!”

    You’re ONLY getting back EXACTLY what you give to all other life on the planet. Nothing more than that. So why are you so upset by it?

    I’ve had to shoot and bury HUNDREDS of these invasive species piece-of-sh** vermin on my lands to stop them from gutting-alive and skinning-alive all the NATIVE wildlife on my lands — as-is the legal right of EVERY land-owner! The eradication of hundreds of these vermin was so complete and effective that I’ve not seen nor heard even one cat in FIVE YEARS now. So much for that deceptive and manipulative “vacuum effect” lie of theirs. And all accomplished for less than the cost of a couple cups of coffee. (5,000 rounds of .22s on a close-out sale for only $15 does wonders. That’s 3 cats PER PENNY permanently vaccinated against all diseases (even those for which vaccines do not exist), sterilized, and even given a permanent and loving “forever home” 2-3 ft. under.)

    The #1 rule now is: ANY non-native cat that is allowed to illegally hunt native wildlife on my lands then in turn gets hunted until dead. NO delays, NO excuses, NO EXCEPTIONS. Collared or not! For you MUST destroy all stray collared cats as well. They are the very source of every last feral cat. If you don’t destroy them too then you have done absolutely nothing to solve the problem. Guaranteed. All the cat-lickers by me told me for over a decade that all their “pet” cats were sterilized. But upon inspection during shooting and burying hundreds of them, NOT ONE of their cats was sterilized. Cat-owners are manipulative and deceptive LIARS — one and all.

    Why aren’t these outdoor cat-hoarders in prison yet and paying hefty fines for every last animal-abandonment, animal-neglect, and animal-endangerment law on every book in every county in every last state? That’s what I’d like to know. The fines from that alone could pay for enough ammo to be rid of every last one of their vermin in only 1 year.

    Bottom line: If you don’t want to take care of your cat in the manner that YOU see fit, then I guarantee you that I WILL take care of your cat in the manner that I see fit — ONE TIME. And it only takes one time. See one, shoot one, A.S.A.P. Simple as that.

    If your cat gets hurt or dies, THAT’S YOUR FAULT. Make NO mistake about that!


    PSA: The time is now …. Half-Past Kill-Kitty O’Clock …. do you know where your piece-of-sh**, disease-infested, invasive species, vermin cat is? If not, grab a shovel and I’ll show you where its new “loving forever-home” is now.

  • Keeping cats prisoner in a home isn’t being kind to them, even if they’re safer there. I’d probably be safer as a hermit, but I’m not a hermit nor do I want to be.

    Much as I prefer to let kids be kids, I tend to like the idea of allowing a cat to be a cat, which includes the possibility that it will pee on your car or your neighbor’s car or that it will meet an early cat-like demise. If you feel crappy about your neighbor’s wax job or about the cat possibly getting eaten by coyotes, then you probably shouldn’t have a cat; and you certainly shouldn’t have a kid. But if you can tolerate the possibility that your cat or your kid might do crappy things to the neighbors and that the neighbors might do crappy things to the cat and kid and you accept those possibilities, then go right on ahead.

    Analogously, under ideal circumstances I would like to eat animals that had the opportunity to live like animals. Pigs that got to live like pigs, even if they met a horrible end on their final day of existence. Ideal circumstances are uncommon and I’m okay with it. Such is life. It is an ecosystem comprised of living things being thoughtlessly self-absorbed assholes toward one another. By my observations, that ecosystem seems especially rich and diverse in the Houston Heights.

  • “@mike – Yes, it licks my barbecue pit – and the tongs I used to flip my food, and the pans I used to transport my food in and out of the house, and the pit handle that I touch with my bare hands while cooking. I’ve even seen them lurking while I’m cooking, then they pounce as soon as I go back in the house. I’ve confirmed this with my security cameras.”
    I can’t satirize this. It’s impossible. I start two or three times to write something satirical, only to realize that it defies satire. “A cat’s tongue touched the barbecue pit handle that I touch with my bare hands… I’ve confirmed this with my security cameras.” You can’t get any more over the top than this.
    Oh wait a second, yes you can. We have a whole legitimate cat-hunter manifesto right below, followed by some “nature red in tooth and claw” philosophizing by our own house Nietzschean, Niche. What a day for Swamplot.

  • Superdave, here’s some help for you. Arguing with cat-lickers or trying to reason with these disrespectful morons who haven’t a clue in their lives accomplishes ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I tried that stupid method for 15 years. The ONLY thing that works is destroying their cats for them, guaranteed.

    No trapping program in the world has been able to catch-up to cats’ breeding rates, this is precisely why Trap & Kill failed as well as Trap, Neuter, Re-abandon (TNR) is an even bigger failure. Actively and aggressively hunting them down, employing “Hunted to Extinction” methods, is the ONLY way to get ahead of and stay ahead of cats’ breeding rates, their ability to out-adapt to any trapping method used, and also the rates at which criminally-irresponsible cat-lickers let more invasive-species vermin cats be born and dumped illegally outdoors.

    If you live where its not legal to use firearms (areas zoned as “residential”) then check into 700-1200fps air-rifles and round-nosed vermin-pellets. Many of the new ones come with their own sound-suppressor designs built-in, specifically designed for shooting vermin cats in urban areas, the demand is that great. Just remember, shoot-to-kill is a perfectly legal way to rid your homes and lands of these diseased vermin cats. Shoot-to-maim is animal cruelty, and rightly so, all hunters know this. Don’t let them parade another illegal shoot-to-maim case in the media to exploit yet another suffering cat for donations for themselves. They torture enough cats to death with their TNR programs for that and make $millions by doing so. (Check out Better Business Bureau’s findings of “Alley Cat Allies” (All Lies) for one example of how to become a millionaire by torturing stray cats to death by letting them roam free. web D0T archive D0T org SLASH web 20131013073823 SLASH http C0L0N SLASh SLASH www D0T bbb D0T org SLASH charity-reviews/national/animal-protection/alley-cat-allies-in-bethesda-md-107/financial They can’t become millionaires if they euthanize them first! No, they need dead and suffering cats in all the streets of the world so when they find them dying of TNR “attrition” they can further exploit dead and injured cats for massive donations to their own bank-accounts.)

    Then there’s always the “SSS and TDSS Cat Management Programs” that are exploding in popularity worldwide: Shoot, Shovel, & Shut-Up; or Trap, Drown, Shovel, & Shut-Up. Both methods are legal on every square foot of this earth. No local ordinances were violated if it never happened. In fact, most law-enforcement agencies prefer that you use either of those two methods so that these criminally-negligent cat-lickers don’t cause even more problems for your community than they already have with their disease-infested vermin. As we ALL know, the only thing worse than having feral cats is drawing feral-cat-lickers (criminally irresponsible cat-hoarders) right to your door. They will do everything possible to destroy your life even further than they already have with their cats if they find out you are even thinking about destroying their vermin for them. Cat-lickers delusionally believe that any land on which a cat has stepped-foot is their own property and they can manipulate and control the owners and all laws on it. There are dozens of their cyber-stalking and cyber-bullying attacks on individuals, businesses, whole towns, and even corporations on a weekly basis. One time so bad that they even drove a loving veterinarian to suicide, and she only tried to save the life of one of their outdoor hoarded TNR cats. ( banvetabuse D0T blogspot D0T co D0T uk SLASH 2014_03_01_archive D0T html ) They will even send death-threats to Congressmen and their families. Google for: Oda Lawmakers Shun Security Threats

    Where cats have already learned to evade all trapping methods, then inexpensive generic acetaminophen (overseas paracetamol) pain-relievers are a more species-specific vermin poison (though harmful to most reptiles, which won’t be dining on the cat-bait-foods that you’ll be using) — a method condoned by even Audubon, Smithsonian, and National Geographic today. Stray cats have been listed as “vermin” since the early 1900’s. (I learned this from a cat-licker. Thanks cat-lickers!) This is why it is even legal to use any and all vermin-poisons on them. For an even more species-specific vermin poison check into the toxicity of “Lilium” species of flowers too. Be certain the plant contains the word “Lilium” in the scientific-name (other plants with the word “Lily” in the common-name may be toxic to other species besides cats). Common N. American “Day Lilies” also work, they are the one exception to the rule that the name “Lilium” needs to be in the scientific name. Lilium species of flowers are 100% fatal to cats ONLY, even a bit of pollen on their fur that they lick-off will do. If they even drink a bit of water in which a bunch of Lilium flowers have been kept — that too is fatal, but totally harmless to all other species of animals (including dogs). Much safer for the environment and all other animals than the rat-poisons and antifreeze that cat-lickers have forced everyone into using on their cats. These plants when harvested and dried for year-round cat-eradication use is even better, as the unknown toxin is concentrated during the drying process (the blossoms and pollen being most toxic), and the dried plants are even more palatable to cats. An excellent mulch for anyone’s garden or a ground-up additive for any tins of food left lying around.

    However, you really need to dispose of that cat safely and hygienically so that wildlife won’t die from the deadly diseases cats spread even after their death. Leaving ANY cat out in nature, alive OR dead, is no better than intentionally poisoning your native wildlife to death. I know this. I fed one of the hundreds of shot-dead cats on my lands to some wildlife under my care, those animals and their offspring that they had while under my care then died from some disease in that cat-meat. Cats truly are complete and total wastes-of-flesh. They can’t even be used to feed wildlife safely.

    I don’t see anyone dumping cats where I live anymore. They don’t even adopt more than can be kept under lock & key 24/7/52. When driving through the area I don’t see even one cat on anyone’s doorsteps anymore. I always keep an eye-out to see if there are more free-roaming cats that will have to be shot. And if I’ll have to leave fish-oil trails on all the roadsides again, leading right to my IR surveillance system and laser-sighted rifle. (You can read the most effective methods I invented to rid my lands of hundreds of these vermin in only two seasons: americanhunter D0T org SLASH blogs/arkansas-will-trap-feral-cats The eradication of these vermin was so complete and effective that cats are non-existent from my area for FIVE years now. So much for that cat-lickers’ oft-spewed and manipulative “vacuum effect” deception and lie too, eh?)

    Leaving ANY of their invasive species cats outside in my area means certain death for their cat, its further existence can be counted in hours. You’d think everyone else could learn from this simple lesson. The quickest way to solve an unwanted animal and irresponsible pet-owner problem is to let everyone know that you will quickly and humanely destroy every last one of their unwanted, uncared-for, or unsupervised animals for them. They either grow up fast or, far more plausible, dump their animals elsewhere to become someone else’s problem.

    You just can’t be an enabler of criminally irresponsible spineless and heartless idiots — or they remain that way. (At least where you live, anyway.)


  • Yes, domestic cats ARE an invasive species. The most depressing factoid about domestic cats is that the majority of the time they kill other animals just for sport, often not eating their prey. I would much rather have birds than cats any day.

    Also, the term “cat-lickers” makes me laugh each time.

  • Woodsman, I really have no idea how you ended up on swamplot but please post more often. I’d love to know your thoughts on any and every topic. Thanks.

  • Well, I think we’ve found our violent cat-hating sociopath!

  • Woodsman, could you elaborate?

  • Y’all all crazy, every one of yous.

  • In case you or anyone are curious — the term that I use of “cat licker” is justifiably and accurately gleaned from the growing fad of people who are obsessed with cats and want to do everything possible to make their cats feel good at the expense of all that is reasonable and sane. They are now licking their cats clean. youtube D0T com SLASH watch?v=p9xmiOxsTWg

    It’s just another one of the many aberrant and mentally-ill behaviors of “cat lickers”.

    I cannot, in all good conscience and honesty, EVER use the term “cat lover” again to describe these heartless and spineless cretins. People who love cats do not throw them under the wheels of moving cars, let them lap-up antifreeze in a gutter, being eaten from the inside-out by parasites, or force them to attack one another to fight for territory by letting their cats roam free. One of the main selling points of TNR (trap, neuter, re-abandon): forcing their cats to fight, often to the death, for territory. Absolutely NO different than people who run criminal dog-fight rings to see who wins. Both just as guilty of animal abuse. There are many laws in place in every county of every state that make it a highly punishable crime to force ANY domesticated animals to fight each other for their very survival. And if VERY VERY lucky their cats will be humanely shot-to-death or trapped & drowned — as those are two of the MOST humane deaths that ANY of their cats will ever hope to meet one day.

    “Cat Lover” is an extremely oxymoronic label. “Cat Licker” is the only one that accurately works today.

  • We used to live off W. 16th and Bevis. One night, when returning home from a really late night at the office, I encountered the strangest thing. A coyote (I’m originally from the country, so I’m sure it was a coyote) jogging down the middle of Bevis straight for my car. I slowed to a stop as it jogged around my car. Chasing it, at full speed, was our neighbor’s big, black, fluffy cat. Dogs had learned to cross the street for the sidewalk a safe distance from this fearless cat, so it wasn’t all that surprising to see a coyote running from it.

  • @woodsman…thank you?

  • @ Woodsman: I’m curious about what you think about terminally-ill people? They’re a massive drain on society’s resources, have essentially no hope for the future, and won’t die with dignity. Would shooting them be humane because their life sucks?

  • Really, the more I think about it: cats hanging upside down to claw their way into your soffit – I’ve never seen a cat work that hard. My cat kinda seems like a slacker now.
    But she’s such a cute furry puffball #$*&^%%!! (hey how did that guy bold?). Most of the time now she just catches up on her beauty sleep*, or PUPPYGUARDS her water bowl on the porch, or sits in it when it’s empty. (*Have you seen that New Yorker cartoon where the cat is asleep on the sofa and in the dream bubble, she’s dreaming of being asleep on the other end of the sofa? HOW TRUE HOW TRUE) She really prefers “scouting” natural water sources to drink from (muddy puddles) but her favorite is moving water and if you SET ONE OF THOSE OLD-FASHIONED SPRINKLERS to oscillate about 60 degrees she’ll come up behind it and put her paw on it to make the water stop, STOP GO STOP GO and it’s SO CUTE. And if you’re crying she’ll come and put her paws to your face to touch your tears and it feels like EMPATHY but probably isn’t…. And one time we got a ball stuck in a tree and we were trying to throw another ball at it and she climbed up and stood on the branch next to the ball like she was going to knock it down, but she didn’t because cats don’t do CONCEPTUAL LEAPS but still it was so CUTE!! And it’s CUTE the way if you bring any new object in the house, no matter how small, she will immediately perceive and claim it MINE. They put in one of those lightning sirens at the school field and no one pays any attention to it but my cat does boy howdy she’s like SAFETY FIRST and runs in the minute that thing goes off to wait under the bed for the storm that doesn’t usually come. Oh yeah, and she is an exceptionally tall cat and can jump to great heights from a resting position!! Usually to catch flying insects to supplement her paleo diet – but she’s also probably DECIMATED# the local click beetle population, actually I haven’t seen one in awhile %^$LMNOP&^%!! The most cat-like thing about her really it’s almost a caricature is how much she loves/is maddened by knitting but she’s a calico so she’s really a dog and loves to follow us everywhere, once she followed me to the school and attended the parent-teacher conference but usually we stop and take her back home and put her in the house, and then we have to get away quickly because there’s a dog door from the previous owner. And speaking of dogs she can be kind of savage, totally goes AIRBORNE NINJA on them, but that’s when she was younger and only if they came up in the yard. She’s mellowed now, but, yeah, I’ve had to apologize for her for acting like a CAT. But SHE”S NOT THE GREATEST MOUSER. One year we had a mouse problem (and when a woman says “mouse” she means RAT but is too delicate to say so!!!) and one night I went in the kitchen to get a glass of water and discovered the cat and the rat sitting in amiable silence so that was DISCONCERTING. I’m not sure she hasn’t sometimes brought the rats/field mice in (dog door). The dog door is in the garage and before I learned to put the garage door all the way down at night raccoons came in once in a while and I can tell you, even though they found the tupperware with her cat food (in the cabinet!) and were banging it on the floor she just LAY LOW she knows to defer to raccoons. (Mother said it was like GREY GARDENS here by the way a curious thing was my house is small but people who haven’t been here before always try to go out the wrong way and when I came in and told the raccoons the party was over they would totally do that too, go the wrong way! but then they’d just turn around and find the right way.) The nicest thing I owned was this Imari bowl that my cat slept in when she was just a tiny puffball and even when she was much too big she would still get in that bowl because it was her first happy place – she had a rough babyhood, born in a barn in East Texas, her siblings didn’t make it but my friend rescued her and then decided she couldn’t keep her so she was deposited with us, she came in that first day a tiny furball and slid about ten feet across the tile – but one night – I’m getting fatigued, THIS IS HARDER THAN IT LOOKS – she just went over the side of the buffet table in that bowl like it was Niagara Falls. Poor kitty! No more bowl but she’s so much better than any old bowl, so glad we were given her. When she was just about a year old we left her to go out of town, her food all there and her dog door access and when we got back she was lying on the couch cool as a cucumber but there was not one but two messages from 2 different folks on the machine, saying so , uh, I’ve got your cat here I’m on x street [like a half mile away!] well since you’re not answering I’ll just drop her off … She was too little to be left alone but we didn’t know any better now we would. She’s never wandered since and now she’s a neighborhood celebrity. She waits in the afternoon for her friends the children who walk past to all the schools hereabouts and if it was a gaggle of girls she used to like to wait in ambush then jump out and make them squeal but now she prefers to be petted and made a fuss over if she’s not out I’ve noticed the kids look up at the house kind of worriedly and sometimes they’ll come up in the driveway. Other night a woman was on the sidewalk absorbed in her phone and my cat came up and rubbed her legs and how that lady jumped I felt kind of bad I guess such things wouldn’t happen if she were an inside cat. Some people have told me cats have better personalities when they’ve never had a litter and she hasn’t and she does seem still so lively at thirteen others say no that’s not true. She hasn’t gotten a bird in many years but when she did she would bring them to the front step or sometimes in the dog door (I particularly remember an undead whitewing that was a big pain) and there was only one bird ever worth regretting (WHICH YOU WILL READILY UNDERSTAND IF YOU”RE SUCH A GREAT NATURALIST boldy italics) and that was a myrtle warbler. She says “sorry” for that and also sorry for causing the drastic degradation of their habitat (aw, sweetie – that wasn’t you). As for coyotes, once I noticed out the kitchen window there was what looked like a piece of trash in the sideyard, but when I got around to seeing about it, turned out it was exactly one-half of a white cat, neatly bisected in a way hard to square with a coyote, but who knows, later we stood there staring at it my cat my husband and I then he buried it and you’ve gotta think that was seriously traumatic for her but like TheNiche said she still chooses sweet freedom day after day. But she’s cautious, other morning I was having coffee outside on the back porch and she was sunning and puppyguarding, facing the woods but very drowsy-seeming, and then bolts up and tore faster than I’ve ever seen around the side of the house. I thought, what could have caused that – not dog – coyote? or supercoyote they’ve been talking about around here? – and sure nuff about ten seconds later Coyote jogs around behind the fence. I figured my cat had holed up in the garage like she ordinarily would if a really big loose dog came by but no she hadn’t paused she was in the house back on that buffet where her bowl used to be and she stayed there all day watching the woods in back with one eye and watching the dog door with the other, except for all the times when she fell asleep.

  • @luciaphile, I think you’ve gone and done it!

  • TheNiche,

    When you put humans on the same level as all other animals and start serving them up in your butchers’ aisles, or cramming humans into bags and cans and having a “cat food” label slapped on them for you, and thoroughly embrace your desire to be a cannibal because you think humans have the exact same values as all animals; then we’ll revisit your anthropomorphic psychoses.

    Until then your argument is just another can of red-herring, the favored food of every last psychotic and sociopathic cat-licker on earth.

  • Woodsman, are you a writer? Would you post more? I enjoyed reading everyrhing you wrote.

  • @if your dog poops, you scoop,

    Two things worry me:

    1. That you think I’m a writer.

    2. That with the internet, libraries, pirate ebook sites, and bookstores at your disposal you can’t find more-worthwhile writing on more entertaining topics.

    Bonus worry #3. That “Twitter” has dumbed-down all of humanity into 140-character-comprehension-limited, brain-damaged, ADHD-crippled “Twitter Heads”.


  • Woodsman, I enjoyed reading what you write for many reasons. seem as you live your life accoding to your own dont seem like a pushover or a people pleaser. also explain everything so well and are very detailed.

    I would like to know what youre thoughts are on people who let thier dogs leave fecal matter in parks and homeowners yards

    Woodsman do you have a fence around tour property? How would you handle soor solicitor s? What if you already had five signs up and they still rang your door bell?

  • If the only thing that makes humans so special that they can’t be arbitrarily euthanized by other humans is that we don’t take human corpses, send them to a rendering plant, process them, and insert them back in our own food supply, then that begs at least one of two questions: why we don’t do it already or why we’re already doing it to dead cats (and dogs and horses and so many other animal byproducts and expired meats)? That humans have in their recent history of the species managed to create this industrial process and exclude themselves from it is very poor evidence that humans are innately special, occupying some elevated moral high ground. It might even cut both ways.

    Besides… Many animals avoid cannibalism if they’re aware of it as such; and I’m sure that I have eaten things in my food supply that came from humans, such as hair, skin, fingernails, sweat, blood from a cut finger, probably human waste — and that’s not even a good reason to stop eating at Jack In The Box. If you don’t intend to eat human tissues or excretions, but that’s what you’re given and you eat it, that shouldn’t serve as evidence of cannibalistic preferences.

    Try again. Tell me what makes you better than a cat.

  • Woah, we’re going way off-topic here on some of that. But hey, if allowed …

    re: Roaming/Scatting Dogs — Here’s a little something I discovered about cat-lickers’ true motives and why they let their cats roam free. It also applies to any irresponsible pet-owner. A little something I wrote a few years back but haven’t posted it much since. I like using cat-lickers like my little online show-‘n-tell puppets now to prove to everyone that no amount of arguing in the world will stop them from their disrespectful and criminally-negligent behavior. The following bit of information about their psyches tends to just shut them up, and that spoils my reason for engaging them. However, for your edification:

    Some important information to help you understand the behaviors of “cat-lovers” and their cats. Something I discovered when local “cat-lovers” (an oxymoronic label if there ever was one) were using cats to overtake my land and woods, eventually even by moving my property markers when using their cats had failed — failed because I got the legal go-ahead to shoot all cats on my lands. (An expensive many $1000s lesson for these property thieves, surveyors are not cheap.) I often wondered why they kept releasing new cats onto my lands even long AFTER they already knew that all their cats were being shot to death, they were told this is what was going to happen by myself and the Sheriff, and WAS happening. They didn’t care about cats AT ALL! Clearly something else was motivating them. How many so-called “cat-lovers” do you know that release cats and let them roam free even after seeing many of them become road-kill, harmed by cat and animal attacks, die of diseases, killed by poisonous plants or animals they encounter outdoors, etc.? (Like every last TNR-advocate for starters.) They don’t care about cats, not in the least!

    Now you’ll know exactly why cat-lickers do what they do. It really has nothing at all to do with their concern for cats, nor even the lives of anything nor anyone else, quite the opposite.

    Human Territorial Behavior By Expendable Proxy

    I have come to the inexorable conclusion that the vast majority of “cat-lovers” and cat-owners that let their destructive invasive-species roam free, and especially those that defend the rights of feral cats to overtake private and public property and wildlife areas, are only (cowardly) using cats as a proxy for their OWN territorial behavior. Not unlike uneducated inner-city youth that will disrespectfully and inconsiderately use loud music to stake-out a territory for themselves. Whether this behavior is done consciously or subconsciously, the underlying motive is the same. As long as they can have one of their cats defecate in another’s yard or destroy their property, animals, and wildlife; and the land-owner not have any recourse; the cat-owner/caretaker owns that territory. It’s time to put a stop to them using their “cute kitty” excuse for usurping and stealing others’ property. If they want territory they can damn well buy it just like anyone else. Instead they’re using underhanded, disrespectful, and manipulative means. By putting (and sacrificing) live animals in the path of their envy and greed. “Cat-lovers” only really want your yard, garden, or forest while making all others and all other animals suffer for what they can’t have nor own. Bottom line–they want to control you and your property. That’s _ALL_ that “cat-lovers” are really after. It’s why they don’t care at all if their cat nor any other animals, nor even other humans, get harmed by their goals and (lack of) values in life.

    re: Fenced property — I decided against it. Not only due to how much that would cost for the size of the lands, but mostly because it would hinder the movement of valuable native-wildlife. (Deer, wild-turkeys, raccoons, skunks, opossum, bears, red & gray foxes, etc. all visit my yard regularly — now that all cats are gone that is.) There are enough fences destroying the natural world. If someone wants cats outside they need to build their own fence to keep their invasive-species vermin contained on their OWN lands, in compliance with all invasive-species and trespass laws. If not, you already know what happens to their cats that leave their property around where I live — they don’t get a second chance to try it again with the same cat.

    re: Solicitors — Long ago, on a lark, I had a realistic styrofoam human-skull left-over from Halloween and I didn’t know what to do with it; so I stuck it on a pole by the door for shits&giggles year-round. That stopped all the Jehovas. (It’s so much fun to play with their paranoid-psychotic beliefs that way. The ones by me even practice with automatic-weapons on their own lands, preparing for “The End Times”. Like even the Mayans didn’t get it right, and some backwater Jehovas think they do? LOL) Another method to thwart solicitors, a more generic method, is to answer the door naked. Most will only knock once after that. Those that come back are there for more than what they are selling and you can proceed accordingly. Your body-type matters not — shock or disgust both work to dissuade them. (This method is also effective on the more brave Jehovas who don’t fear “The Demonic Satan-Worshiping Skull” enough. Plus they get to explain to their kids, that they always bring along, a grow-up lesson in what just happened. LOL) One further helpful method (when you’re not up for doing the naked bit): I have a permanent note taped to my door for about 10 years now that says, “Went to town for supplies, will be back in a few hours.” It’s an easy and effective call-screening device. Those that know you, know you’ll answer the door if you are home; those that don’t know you will wait around until they get thoroughly pissed-off, wasting their own time like they wanted to waste yours. And if you have video critter-cams to monitor your yard for wildlife (as I do, for day or night), you get to enjoy their antics until they leave. LOL :-)

  • (Nervously): Sure seems like “the worst are full of passionate intensity” these days!
    Hey – is that a giant cat coming this way?

  • Soylent Green is people.

  • I don’t think that I went off topic on this one. You presented a number of crappy arguments in favor of preventing cats roam freely and I pointed out the extent to which it is crappy. But everything you just wrote, right now, yeah that’s a combination of being repetitive and going off topic as far as I can tell. You haven’t continued the conversation.

  • @TrollNiche,

    Who spewed for attention, “Try again. Tell me what makes you better than a cat.”

    That’s simple, I have a gun now and know how to use it. (aside: You’d be amazed what kind of excellent marksman you turn into after having to shoot hundreds of cats running wild. Never wasted even one bullet! Hunters I know and have known often advised to use cats for lessons, I didn’t believe them, until I had to do it myself. They were right. With their small, darty, furtive, sometimes swift, and wary behavior they are much more difficult targets to hit than anyone would first suspect (especially at the distances that you often have to shoot them, hundreds of yards away). And if you love all animals and don’t want to see any of them suffer, you won’t pull that trigger unless you are instinctively certain that that cat will die as swiftly as possible.)

    Digression aside: The real world is not some smarmy bambi-cartoon school replete with sing-along curricula for pavement-brained imbecilic morons. It is eat or be eaten. Whether that be bear or ebola. You pick those species that are beneficial to the existence of humankind (if you want humankind to survive, that is) and you dissuade, evade, or destroy those that are trying to wipe-out humanity and all other life around you. These domesticate cat species fall clearly in the “they are destroying all life on the planet, the very life upon which our own lives depend” column. Now if you want to hug and cuddle some ebola and praise its reason to exist because you think all life is equal and it deserves to live, we all know right where we can send you to pursue your astoundingly psychotic and pathetically stupid goals in life. I’d even try to get some funding available to have you shipped-off to the center of Ebolaville so you can prove to us just how much you love all forms of life.

    It’s pretty simple: If you love humanity and want it to survive you destroy all free-roaming cats. If you secretly hate and despise humanity and yourself, you promote the existence of a form of life that is destined to destroy it and all other life on the planet; i.e. cats.

    How’s that sociopathy working-out for you TrollNiche? Have you ever touched a human? (The more important question, has any other human ever wanted to touch you! LOL) Or is it just cats now? I bet the latter. Here’s a simple cure for you if the only living thing that can stand to be near you these days is a cat (and even then I bet it’s desperately trying to run-away from your existence every time you open a door) — “If you want to be loved it is YOUR responsibility to be loveable.” (One of my own quotables.) Get started on that. You’ll find out that humans and all other forms of life on the planet have much more reason to live than your vermin cats.

  • @TrollNich, the “off topic” comment wasn’t in reply to you, but then you’d know that if you bothered to read anyone else’s comments but your own and mine. I didn’t think you’d be back after being so easily dismissed (but then a troll is a troll!) and that my “re:” replies would end-up right beneath the person’s comment who asked me all those questions (to which there were obvious “re: topic” leaders). And now for the final solution to you: Just like cats; you can also get rid of both, cats and trolls, by starving them to death.

    (To web-designer: Please see if you can modify the code to only delete more-than two linefeeds/breaks. Online convention is to separate paragraphs with 2 linefeeds, rather than the 1linefeed+5-space/1-tab indent because leading spaces and tabs for paragraph-breaks (as in the “olden days”) are regularly deleted everywhere. I tried all the usual methods (simple html code, unconventional hidden ascii codes, etc.) to include line-feeds to make things more legible in my often-multi-paragraph comments, but the programming here strips them of all but one. I taught myself PHP programming in only five days awhile back, surely you can find the bit of code that strips out more than one linefeed and limit it instead to two. Your readers and contributors will thank you.)

  • Woodsman, you’ve got me pegged as somebody I’m not. I have no problem killing an animal that proves a genuine nuisance. Snakes come to mind. And I have guns, too (although I suppose that using those guns don’t excite me as they do you). I’m fairly well convinced that my next-door neighbors have eaten two of my cats and I don’t hold it against them either; there are plenty of kittens in the world to adopt if a pet cat disappears. I’m fairly dispassionate about this. You seem to think that I’m telling you that you shouldn’t kill cats, but that’s not the case at all.

    Where I disagree with you and some others is that you made the case earlier that pet cats should be kept inside for their own safety. I don’t consider cat safety to be the paramount consideration of a pet owner. It’s going to die just as sure as it was born (and so will you and I). It will suffer from its exploration at times and as a consequence of its nature, I am sure. It’s going to hunt for food and sport, killing things opportunistically because it can. That should likely sound especially familiar to you, and perhaps you are more cat-like than I am, but nevertheless we both sanction the systematic destruction of wild habitat as a consequence of agriculture and especially ranching, and we know it, and to the extent that we are conscientious of it, we have decided that it doesn’t matter that much.

    I said before, I don’t want to be a hermit. It might be safer that way both for my sake and the sake of others, and I am likewise aware of that but I do not want to be cooped up. Its human nature to desire to go beyond one’s doorstep, out into the world. If I have a cat and it desires to go out and explore, I’m not inclined to keep it cooped up either. That is its desire and I am inclined to be permissive unless it personally inconveniences me, whereas I am a force of nature. Perhaps it will die early, but it got to be a cat. And perhaps it will eat your wildlife or pee on your car and that’s okay too; it is a force of nature; and you can shoot it; you are also a force of nature; such is life and death whether cat or human. We all three must all face the circumstances that are and take our pleasures such as we can.

  • woodsman: ” “If you want to be loved it is YOUR responsibility to be loveable.” (One of my own quotables.)”

    Aaahhh… did anyone else get that Stuart Smalley vibe while reading his posts. You really got me fooled, mr woodsman. You’re a big softy!!!!!!!!!!

  • @TrollNiche,

    Ah, now I get it. You’re just one of those “I really don’t care about anything” bliss-ninnies. I ran into (and stayed with, to study them) a whole pack of a religious cult like that one time during my backpacking days around the world, chanting themselves into an onanistic ecstasy as they didn’t care about anything else in the whole universe but how they made their own selves feel on the way to their psychotic, brain-damaged, self-hypnotic, and heart-numbed “nirvana”. (What total wastes of flesh those people were! When confronted one time about one of their goats that was strangling itself to death in a fence, their reply was, “Oh, that’s just the goat’s karma, it was meant to be there, leave it be.” I left their toxic and disgusting existence behind shortly thereafter.)

    For the record: I had never even owned a rifle until I found out from the sheriff and all other land-owners around me that shooting cats was the ONLY method that was effective. Then I realized I had to put firearms skills on my list of things-to-do. A friend (whose little girl has her own cats and he shoots any unknown cats to protect his own child’s cats from all the deadly diseases that stray cats spread to other cats) actually gave my cat-shooting rifle to me. It worked out GREAT!

    Aside: Though, to be perfectly honest, after I see now that ALL cat-lickers don’t give one damn how any of their cats die or how any and all animals are skinned-alive and gutted-alive by their cats, I am now reconsidering why ANY cat deserves a humane death. Perhaps cats deserve to die the same way that cats torture all other animals to death by being skinned-alive and gutted-alive, including the fact that their owners even encourage their cats to torture animals to death. It would be perfectly fair, just, and equitable for their cats to suffer to death the very same way that their owners allow and even applaud the way their cats kill other animals; would it not? In fact, if these brain-dead cat-lickers believe in karma, then the cat-owners too need to die an inexorable death by being gutted and skinned alive and left to writhe and scream themselves to death. That too would be perfectly just and equitable by their own standards of how all living things should and must die. Is this what you wanted me to learn?

    To this day that rifle has never shot at anything but targets (to check sight alignment) and cats. That’s all that it has ever been used for. But I keep it should a rabid or badly injured animal need to be put down. Or to scare some rather friendly bears in my woods that might challenge their welcome one day (I’ve simply talked them out of destroying quite a few things, we have an understanding now, I like having them visit on occasion). Or if another pathetically stupid cat-licker lets their cat outsmart them to roam free onto my lands one day. If your destructive invasive-species cat can outsmart you to get outside, that only proves that you are dumber than a cat — you shouldn’t be allowed to have ANY other life under your care, not even a pet fish.

    To those of you who don’t want me to shoot cats, don’t let them roam free. How simple is that? Is this logic beyond your feline-brained comprehension? Must be.

    PSA: The time is now …. Half-Past Kill-Kitty O’Clock …. do you know where your piece-of-sh**, disease-ridden, invasive-species vermin cat is? If not, grab a shovel and I’ll show you where its new “loving furever home” is now.

    Love ’em or lose ’em!

    If you let your vermin roam free and it gets hurt or it dies, NO MATTER HOW IT GETS HURT OR DIES, that is YOUR fault and you can be charged with all laws that clearly define animal-neglect, animal-abandonment, and animal-endangerment.

    Do you actually love your vermin? Or are you just using it as a highly expendable animal-sacrifice to manipulate everyone in your life? I guess we’ll find out when your piece-of-sh** vermin never comes home.

  • I am always somewhat amused when a new poster comes on board and after a short time, proceeds to tell Gus how he should run this show.
    I try to nicely suggest they go piss in their boot or start their own blog.

  • Woodsman, those are some great ideas! You’re right , they are wasting others time.door soloitors is my second pet first pet peeve is dog fecal waste in my yard or public parks or any where.

    I have some new questions, if you dont mind answering. do you think life started on earth. I know there are different beliefs and theories, but what do you believe?

    Do you think thier are is other life or beings similiar to himans, outside of our galaxy

    How do you think the universe came onto existence

    What is the point of life?

  • @If Your Dog…,

    Wow, now you’re going WAY off topic. :-) Topics better discussed over a pitcher of brew or bottle of rum. But to satiate some of your curiosity…

    1. Random-chance atoms. They may have been seeded from comets from the Oort cloud or started on earth, either way it’s random-chance atoms.
    2. I like an answer given once by Bucky Fuller, “Sometimes I think we’re alone. Sometimes I think we’re not. In either case, the thought is quite staggering.” Ponder on each possibility for a moment; if we’re alone, “wow!”, if we’re not, “wow!” And it has to be one or the other. No other options. Though I think the possibility of us being alone is nearly infinitesimal. Just the nearly infinite number of stars and planets in the known universe nearly precludes ours being the only one to have evolved life even by random-chance. The “Hubble Ultra-Deep Field” project was amazing, the further you look into the darkest of space the more galaxies there are.
    3. There never was a “Big Bang”. I told others long-long-ago that we live in a steady-state universe that continuously seethes in on itself in a multi-Klein-Bottle manner through black-holes. Each localized black-hole’s event-horizon being the 1/2-twist in a Klein-Bottle-space that allows it to pass through itself. (The black-holes themselves are the singularities that they had presumed are the source of the “Big Bang” theory. Though there are a nearly infinite numbers of them.) The matter collapsing into black-holes, now attaining the speed-of-light because there is nothing to impede its acceleration, recondenses into all those vast empty pockets of space between galaxies as the sub-atomic particles that “pop” into existence and then condense yet again to form primordial “dark matter”. I always get a little bit of a chuckle realizing that “dark matter” comes from “black holes”. :-) (BTW: empty-space repels matter, there is no gravity. This explains the perception that “gravity” can even have influence between vastly distant galaxies.) It is interesting that just this year they uncovered Einstein’s unknown works on this, reflecting some of my own findings from years ago. While this doesn’t explain the origin, it eloquently explains how it works and maintains itself.
    4. Whatever point you want it to have. Though I strongly suspect that the universe wants to know itself.

  • I assume that the people who just want to let cats be cats and wander are cool with me coming over so my dog can take a dump in your yard? After all – he’s just being a dog!

    I’ve had cats and I love cats. They all have lived inside. They have been happy and long lived cats. If you can’t provide your cat with a stimulating indoor environment, you’re doing it wrong.

  • @ Woodsman: No, that’s also not me. I don’t fall back on karma or fatalism to justify action or inaction. Like most people, I balance my individual preferences against consequences; I can’t always justify my preferences and many of them fall under a broad umbrella of morality, so that results in some interesting dilemmas, such as the one about allowing pets to roam free or the fact that we are each introspective enough to desire to continue this conversation. (I probably would’ve helped the goat in your example, provided that I thought doing so was safe.) I suspect that most people behave according to a similar model, although sensory inputs and clarity of thought do occur along a wide range among individuals.

    @ John (another one): As it so happens, my current cat is an indoor cat by choice. It’ll go and sniff around on the patio, but it doesn’t ever go further. But that’s an anomaly among cats. All of her predecessors have worked hard at leaving the house and were basically impossible to keep cooped up; they turned into escape artists; and those cats got all got eaten. For me to counter their desire to leave the house would’ve been frustrating both for me and for the cats, therefore I did not.

    If a person don’t want to inflict cat poop on their neighbor’s lawn then they probably shouldn’t have a cat. On the other hand, if a kitten was only ever destined to be a stray in the first place, but for your intervention, then it was bound to poop somewhere and would probably be a much more successful hunter. Clearly, if you like cats, then it is better for society (which includes your neighbor but not only your neighbor) AND for you AND the cat that you adopt a stray kitten and then to be permissive rather than to have done nothing or to forcibly incarcerate it.

  • @TrollNich,
    Please do the world a huge favor and obtain at LEAST a high-school freshman’s level of education in matters of ecology, biology, and evolution. The world will thank you. Everything you have tried to state up til now to justify your own ignorance has been devoid of any comprehension of these important subjects. The very knowledge needed upon which this whole argument depends. You have come to a real gun-fight with your imaginary cartoon magic-wand.
    Your bible-home-schooling is failing you (whatever bible that might be).

  • Hrmmm…I see that there’s been a total ad homimem meltdown and with kind of an odd bent because as far as I can tell we weren’t disagreeing about biology or ecology or evolution.

  • Woodsman, thanks again for answering my questions.I really wish I had such a wise and logical thinker as a friend.the only other person whom I knew that was that way, was my dad 10/27/1949 -4/20/1994.

    Yesteday I went to a birthday party and I stepped in dog shoes are suede.I have each one in a bag on my porch.

    Woodsman, how do you deal with people who switch lanes in front of you in a very rapid way without signaling?